Ask HN: Do you think public education can be fixed? | Hacker News Reader

Ask HN: Do you think public education can be fixed?

17 pointsbenblodgett18 comments

I recently shipped a crowdfunding non-profit that pays tuition to low-fee private schools in developing countries. It's been going well for the last two weeks, but I've hit a bit of a snag in our mission.

I was called a neo-liberal and yelled at for "trying to fix the wrong problem" at a recent edtech meetup. This gal believes that for-profit charter schools are horrible for primary education and I should be focused on helping public/government institutions.

My response was that I want to directly effect kids now, not spend years trying to make a change that is unlikely to happen. The schools we work with are held accountable for the quality of education they provide and are teaching students we funded today. A third-world public school system isn't going to change because of a few thousand dollars, but a 100 student charter school with a budget of $80k per year will.

What does HN think about the situation? Do you think educating a smaller amount of people now is better then relying on potentially changing the whole system in future years?

Did she have any particular knowledge about those countries and their education systems? You might want to invite her to give you more information.

Of course, maybe she's just knee-jerking against something. I don't know what though.

Many countries charge for education. This means that girls especially miss out on education.

You do need to be careful when money is involved. Unfortunately corruption is rife. There are many "libraries" that are unsafe, and filled with old, mouldering books. People send "recycled" PCs abroad, but the usable machines are filtered out and ewaste is illegally dumped. And as soon as money is involved there are crooks trying to get it. (http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2013/04/the...)

So, in general it's better to find an existing NGO working in the country and area you're interested in and see what they need. Sometimes that's money, but sometimes it's more awareness, or people to volunteer a few hours for better web tech, or other stuff.

Your last question presents a dichotomy, but you don't need to do either / or. You could do both, acknowledging it's sub-optimal but pretty good in a lousy situation.

I'll edit in some links that may be interesting.

IRIN has some great photos of children and school. (http://www.irinnews.org/Photo/Result.aspx?ThemeID=EDU)

Here are children BREAKING ROCKS TO PAY FOR SCHOOL (http://www.irinnews.org/photo/Slideshow/83/Children-break-ro...)

I particularly like this one, of a child walking near (through?) minefield to get to school. (http://www.irinnews.org/Photo/Details/201104041243130656/A-c...)

And this one of a girl doing her schoolwork by lamp light, in Kandahar. (http://www.irinnews.org/Photo/Details/201102171228410821/A-g...)

(http://www.hrw.org/reports/2012/02/19/no-place-children)

(http://www.hrw.org/reports/2013/03/07/old-man-can-feed-us-yo...)

(http://www.hrw.org/reports/2011/12/08/how-come-you-allow-lit...)

(http://www.hrw.org/reports/2012/09/11/classrooms-crosshairs-...)

Wow thanks DanBC some really good points here. To answer your question we were specifically discussing primary education in developing countries, but I think she was just an interested bystander. I will take your advice on following back up with her.

Corruption is a foremost concern for us, we have an extensive due diligence process that allows us to understand the operations of any school we fund. In Ghana, where we started we also have a trusted volunteer who is regularly in contact with the faculty to make sure they are conforming to the standards they agreed to. I think a similar volunteer will be essential in any area we expand to.

The problem I have with just donating to existing NGOs is I don't know where the money goes. Most just blend it into their general budget, I want to know that my dollars are creating direct and immediate change.

You make good points.

It is tricky to know whether an NGO or charity is honest and effective.

I'd be interested to hear how your startup goes. Please feel free to email me anytime.

I am a teacher, and I have been a hobbyist programmer all my life. I am just now starting to apply my programming skills to education problems.

At PyCon 2012, pg asked developers to fix search, email, and universities. When someone asked him about fixing public US high schools, he said something along the lines of "Don't try to do that, it's too hard." He really meant that it's too hard to base a profitable startup on fixing public high schools. He was not against efforts to improve public education.

No one will "fix" public education, just like no one will "fix" email. The only approach to large problems like this is to create something that helps people solve the core problem in a better way. Then take over "market share".

I believe public education is ripe for a revolution. The revolution won't happen by entering the political arena with a loud voice. It will happen by educating a statistically normal group of students in a way that can easily be scaled.

I believe that "easily scaled" means every tool involved in the process needs to be completely free and open. There is so much friction in education, that we need to make adoption of better methods as easy as registering a new account on a website.

I am working on a simple trio of open tools that I believe has the capability of bringing about widespread change. Briefly:

OpenCompetencies: A tool that allows a school to manage its own system of standards/ learning targets. One school's system can be "forked" by any other school, at any time. The concept of forking is clear to us, but does not exist in public education. OpenCompetencies also identifies "pathways", which are paths through the entire set of standards, focusing on particular post-high-school interests.

OpenCurriculumBuilder: A dedicated lesson-planning tool. Most lesson plans are still written in Word, which is like programming with an old version of notepad. This tool lets teachers focus on the intellectually interesting parts of lesson planning. It supports sharing by creating a common format for curriculum plans. It supports long-term revision by separating data from presentation.

OpenStudentTracker: This is a tool to import all the competencies from OpenCompetencies, creating a personal "map" for a student's learning. When a student completes their map, they are finished with high school. The map can be owned by the student, or a parent or school on the student's behalf.

I gave a lightning talk at PyCon this year about these tools, which was well-received. If you are interested:

PyCon lightning talk: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v...

Brief blog post on the topic, with talk slides: http://peak5390.wordpress.com/2013/03/17/lightning-talk-abol...

Github repository for opencompetencies: https://github.com/openlearningtools/opencompetencies

I think others have the same sentiment but:

Public education is about a mix of child minding, keeping children out of the labour market - oh and as an afterthought teaching them stuff we taught the previous generations (so they became teachers and can teach the same stuff again).

Private has always been the pathfinder but too often ignored 'cos of political differences.

Exactly and the education of a child shouldn't be focused on keeping kids off the street. This is a positive by-product but unfortunately seems to be the extent of what the public sector can do in developing areas.

The private sector has to focus on providing a quality education or their tuition will dissipate and they will shut down.

> The private sector has to focus on providing a quality education or their tuition will dissipate and they will shut down.

Or they could just inflate their test scores. [1]

[1] http://ideas.time.com/2013/04/02/whats-really-scandalous-abo...

That story is related to a public school, private schools are not as concerned with standardized test scores. Unlike the public sector their funding isn't determined by government review.

Public education can not be fixed because it exists to support regimes, education is best done in private.

In all likelihood, people won't divorce the statist religion, nor will they give up public schools.

Right now the regime in /my/ nation prevents me from even opening a school without their approval.

Thanks for your view, what nation are you residing in?

Canada

My first reaction -- I feel like this critic is engaged in a Sisyphean task, where she'll never actually roll the rock over the mountain, but she wants credit because her rock is bigger than yours.

But, maybe you can learn something from her by listening carefully. Is it really just prejudice, or is there some experience to back it up?

Education is a big sector with a lot of problems that simply can't be solved with a "one size fits all" solution. It needs all the help it can get and that means ignoring the loud-mouth blame gamers who are more concerned with being right than they are finding workable solutions.

I think there are underlying problems with how people are taught today (too much rote learning, in my opinion, being just one). This problem exists in both public and private schools.

I also feel that current public (and many private) school solutions are not scalable. We can't keep throwing hundreds of billions of dollars at education in an attempt to give everyone an equal chance at education.

I do feel that finding better ways to help people become critical thinkers, thereby enabling them to "learn on their own", is best solved at the micro level.

Don't even get me started on the approach of standardisation. People simply don't think and learn the same way. Neuro-diverse learners being just one example.

Did she offer solution to fixing public education? because I haven't heard of one that sounds plausible, besides vouchers for charted schools.

Public education should more more of a guideline for what students should know in each grade, it doesn't have to be an actual building full of kids. Government sets guidelines for food safety, but there isn't a government building full of butchers slaughtering cattle.

I think as long as your focused on metrics and being able to show improvement your on the right track.

Clickable: http://www.nkoso.org

automate and export it

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