Hacker News Reader

Comment by dantheman | Hacker News Reader

I really don't like that they don't do a $10 - $15 digital download. You can provide the download after the film is in theaters, it can be thought of as a preorder of the dvd only cheaper for them.

View on HN

They respond to this on the Kickstarter page:

> Why aren’t you offering a Digital Download or DVD reward?

> I wish I could give you all everything you want. Unfortunately, giving away the movie could scare off the good distributors for movies like this, because the theater chains insist on having the “first run” of movies before they are available on DVD or digitally. I want all my fans to be able to see this movie in their hometown theaters on the big screen if they want to. I hope you like the rewards I am offering, and if there’s something you don’t see on the page, please comment and let me know.

That says that theater chains insist on being first. But the download/dvd could come after the theatrical run. It would be nice if, in exchange for helping to fund the movie, I could get, you know, the movie.

The movie is the point of the whole enterprise; it seems like a natural reward.

But, everyone will be able to buy that. If you want the DVD after the run, you can have that.

The rewards are all things no one can buy except by backing the kickstarter.

I don't care about any of the rewards.

I want to fund the movie - not to get a t shirt, or picture. I want to fund it so I can watch it.

>I don't care about any of the rewards.

Then don't fund the kickstarter.

You can pledge whatever you want and then select No Reward ("No thanks, I just want to help the project.").

I can't get the DVD after the run if the kickstarter fails. I'd like to help it succeed by committing ahead of time to buying the DVD.

It's more on distributors than theater chains. I believe by giving first dibs to a good distributor will allow the movie to be released internationally (either on cinema or bluray / DVD) easier and faster.

I think it's a good idea actually. Kickstarter is about funding projects, not necessarily about getting stuff.

Heh, the good old "Kickstarter is not a store, it's just a website where you give money and get stuff in the mail later."

I think of it like giving to public radio. Generally the gifts in return for a donation are of a lesser cash value than the donation you're making.

Also... smackfu? Like formerly st marks place brooklyn smackfu?

Not that smackfu.

Whoa I can't believe there is more than one smackfu

A lot of people don't seem to realize that it's also prohibited by the Visa and Mastercard TOS. You can't bill people's credit cards for a product that doesn't exist yet.

That isn't remotely true; where'd you hear that whopper? A merchant can authorize and charge a card for any reason, and the cardholder can challenge it and it will be investigated. How would VISA and Mastercard even enforce "the product must exist", honestly? What about my charges for services rendered, or digital downloads, or...

You really think Amazon Payments would have let Kickstarter go this long if they weren't kosher?

Kickstarter is kosher, precisely because as the parent post said ""Kickstarter is not a store, it's just a website where you give money and get stuff in the mail later."

It's the fact that it's a donation, not the pre-purchase of a physical good, that makes it so.

If you're selling a physical good, you're supposed to deliver or ship it at the time of the transaction.

> where'd you hear that whopper?

Originally from our banker at Chase that handled our merchant account set up, but it's easy enough to confirm if you look:

http://usa.visa.com/download/merchants/card-acceptance-guide...

http://www.consumer.ftc.gov/articles/0221-billed-merchandise...

> You really think Amazon Payments would have let Kickstarter go this long if they weren't kosher?

It's worth noting that even though Kickstarter is kosher, the area is gray enough that Amazon is not taking on any more Kickstarter-type sites until further notice precisely because of their legal concerns.

This is true but there are complexities. It's something that people can easily run afoul of if they're not paying close enough attention. If you charge someone for a pre-order of something that doesn't actually exist yet and has a risk of not existing at all then you can be in violation of Visa/MC TOS quite easily. Typically the way most pre-orders work is that there's a deposit and then the actual charge occurs within some window of time prior to the thing being shipped.

If you want to do crowd funding you can do that but you need to set up the expectations differently, to make sure that people know that they are donating to a project and maybe receiving a reward. Also, when purchasing things like plane or concert tickets it's important to note that you're not pre-ordering anything you're buying a reservation, you're purchasing a place on a list which will be used to allow entrance to that event or trip.

Interesting, but can't all pre-orders be thought of like "buying a reservation" ? You don't pre-order a book, you're purchasing a place on a list which will be used to determine who gets the first books.

But the Veronica Mars project just that,sooooo

I agree, but that's likely infeasible because it interferes with theatres' distribution rights.

Yeah, but as I addressed above you can release the download after it's been in the theater and out on dvd.

The Kickstarter supporters are likely to be his biggest, most loyal fans.

I can understand a reluctance to offer a reward that will disincentivize those same people from paying to see the movie on opening weekend.

Reply on news.ycombinator.com