Ask HN: Parents of 2 month old baby. Going nuts with stress

Congratulations! In a year from now, this will seem only trivial, and you both will be enjoying your beautiful kid. As a father of two, I have some advice for you:

- things will get better. Slowly, but still. Take it day by day, and accept that times are really, really tough right now. Acceptance is the key here.

- at least consider to stop breast feeding. My wife had similar issues as yours, and the sleep deprivation was killing her. I know there's a big pro-breastfeeding lobby, but there are no convincing and significant scientific studies that say conclusively that breastfeeding is better OR worse for your child. We gave our 2nd formula after a week or two, and we were all happy with it.

- do what feels good, trust your instincts. Don't listen too close to other people's good advice. Including this one.

- get someone to babysit for a weekend. Gt a decent night sleep and do something funwith your wife. She'll appreciate it more than you think!

- most of all: try to enjoy the little moments... Her sleeping in your arms, on your lap... They grow up so damn fast you wouldn't believe it!

Best of luck!

When my wife was pregnant, I called my friend Greg - not for advice, though his earlier lesson when I had to cancel something was "Repeat after me. I don't know. I will have to ask my wife."

Anyway, Greg wasn't home, but I talked to Julie, this was some years ago. She explained thus:

For the next year, you are number three. Baby is first. Mom is second. And then you. Unless you have a dog. Then you are number four.

Right now, your beloved is not only lacking sleep. Her body also has a unique hormone balance that does things like foster lactation. This is something you experience, not run according to plan.

However, your experience at two months is not unusual. We had one similar. I mentioned it to my neighbor Bill across the alley. Get a swing.

Not the bouncy seat. A swing. The one with the rigid arms that does nothing but go back and forth - they come with motors. Bill gave me one that was wound by hand. It was good enough.

Put your child in the swing and let 'er rip. Don't feel guilty. Get some peace. Know that it only gets more wonderful over time.

Good Luck.

oh yea. already got a swing and it is useful (not always but mostly). Baby is responding well to the swing. we have alternatives as well. pretty much a swing, secure sleeper, a different kind of sleeper with vibrations (dont even know what it is called). Thx for the suggestions.

Our experience was that the first 4 or 5 months is exactly like that. You learn to cat nap, sleep and soothe the baby in short shifts. Think of it as being in the military now. Dads (co-parenting ones anyway) need to expect to be partial zombies at work for a while if they are giving Mom proper breaks at night.

One mistake my niece made: While you are drilled about "breast milk is best" until you feel like an abusive parent to think otherwise, sometimes babies reject mother's milk. Talk to your pediatrician but formula might make it easier on everyone.

I'm sure everyone has suggested the "What to expect..." books. They offer tons of baby hacks that could make your nights easier.

Also, being exhausted and mad at the adorable screaming ball of primal needs is normal (sometimes) but if it lapses into post-partum depression, that's a serious thing that involves tsunamis of hormones and brain chemistry. You can't expect to jolly her out of that and needs to brought to the attention of a professional.

Hang in there. Our oldest had colic which required nearly round the clock rocking but once we hardened ourselves to the daunting routine and got tuned to what he wanted we were able to zombie-shuffle our way through.

"adorable screaming ball of primal needs". You made me chuckle!! Thx for the advice.

You're welcome. I forgot to say that the best way (IMHO) to tell "baby blues" from full-blown post-partum depression is sleep. After a weekend of you or your family taking a lot of the night shift where your wife has gotten good chunks of uninterrupted sleep, if she is still deeply blue with funk, anger or depression it could be more serious. If not, she just needs more nighttime breaks during the week.

Yes those first two months suck and every child is different. One thing that my wife and I did was that she would pump and go to bed at around 8/9 pm. I would stay up with the baby monitor and the baby was my responsibility till around 1am. If the baby got up I had to deal with it. I also gave our kid a bit of formula as the last bottle before I went to bed. The rumors were true, our child was fuller longer and slept longer. This gave my wife and I pretty close to a full night sleep.

One more thing that people will tell you is that you need to put your child on a schedule. Really, the child ends up making their own schedule, but you can influence the schedule. In the evenings pick a time that you want your kid to go to sleep, and don't let that kid out of his bedroom. Keep the lights dim and don't offer up any stimuli other than basic soothing. Hum a lullaby, really don't worry nobody can hear you. During the day don't let your child nap for longer than 2 hours. Wake them up, feed them and play with them. Start this two hour cycle every day at the same time, and don't let them sleep in. If they sleep in and don't consistently wake up every two hours they will never get on the day night sleep cycle.

We eventually got our child to sleep through the night. We put him down at 8pm every day consistently and he would sleep till around 6:30am. This all will take a bit of time, but wow is the whole family better. Well, until teething, my child just turned 1 and he his next tooth coming in is a molar. This is a whole other post.

One problem that we did have is pooping. That kid had the hardest time pooping. When you rock your kid to bed don't rock them like you see in the movies. Try a couple different positions. One that worked for us was holding them like a (American) football with their head on the outside of your elbow, and your arm and hand supporting their body.

All the books say to put your child on his back to sleep. Supposedly the statistics say that your child is more at risk of sids if they sleep on their stomach, but when we put our kid on his stomach there was a bit more pressure applied to his stomach and that pressure seemed to help. If your child is having a problem pooping say and I'll post more about it.

My best advice - get into a parents group. We formed our own group from the parents attending the same childbirth class. Your local child development council should be able to help you out if necessary.

It's VITAL to have a support system and to know that you're not the only parents to have these feeling and issues. There is NO substitute for personal interaction and commiseration. Even if you have parents and babysitters available, you need people to validate the feeling you're having which are normal and common.

The group we formed lasted for many years and was very helpful while raising our 2 kids.

Because you're still working, you get 8-9 hours a day off from being responsible for the immediate care of the baby. Your wife probably feels like she gets zero hours off. Is she eager to get back to work or just to get out of the house and get a few hours off? Could you work from home a few days a week or drop down to 30 hours a week so she could have some time to feel like a professional more than a mom? You're both really stressed and your lives have changed a lot, but hers has changed more than yours, at least for now. Can you leave the baby with her grandparents and go away for a weekend?

I agree that a bit of formula is going to be fine for the baby. The more important thing is a happy, loving set of parents who aren't resentful of the awesome thing they made. If the crying and not sleeping doesn't stop soon, it could be attributable to an allergy or food sensitivity. Your wife can either go on a super bland and shitty elimination diet, or you could talk to your doctor and see if formula exists for super allergic kids and just try him on that for a few weeks and see if it gets better. Food allergies are really common nowadays, and it's an easy thing to fix.

Getting a sleep pattern set is absolutely critical the first eight weeks. We have an almost 3 year old (she) and a 9 month old (he). She was set at her 3rd week and him at his 4th or 5th. Both were non-breastfeed but are months ahead on all milestones. Declare a night time regime and follow it strictly. Say 9PM is when you want them to sleep. At 8:30PM have a little one-on-one with the baby. Change their diaper for the night, put on PJs or night gown, make their bottle for the night. At 8 weeks they should be at 4 or more oz. We've had our son at 6oz since about 3 months. Mix the breast milk with a scoop of rice-based formula or even a baby rice cereal. The rice starches will naturally take longer to digest, keeping your baby happier and fuller longer throughout the night. Enfamil, Similac, and even store brands from Target, Walmart, and Sam's Club work well. Talk to your doctor about setting a sleep pattern as well.

Firstly is your wife pumping milk,why not let the baby breast-feed directly?Its painful for awhile but will make your life a lot easier in the long run as its vastly simpler than bottles.

Secondly why are both getting up?Its only one baby! It does not need two adults to get up at the same time at night. Wife can feed the baby directly every 3 hours,you sleep through most of the night.Your wife can also sleep during the day as she as still at home and get help.

Babies sleep a lot and you cant set a schedule for a 2 month old so work around her needs.When you get home your wife gets out for a walk for a bit and then you can watch a movie together and relax when she is napping,do some non-baby related things each day and realise as new parents you are definitely worrying too much (we were the same on our first one).

Is she colicy? This could cause postpartum depression in your wife(and maybe even you) quite easily.

Parent of triplets on a throwaway account here. Some of this may come across as rude, sorry.

- You have one baby, you truly don't know the meaning of stress.

- Talk with and listen to other good parents at work/in your life.

- The What To Expect... books were gold for us as first-time (x3) parents.

- Your kid will be perfectly okay if they're on formula (but definitely give as much breast milk as you can).

- Alternate night-feeding duties between you and your wife. Then be glad you don't have two hands and three babies to feed by yourself on that shift.

- While doing all of this and the night shifts, I still had to work 40-50 hours a week at a job. I was mostly unproductive for 6 months.

- Man up and support your wife. All I hear is me, me, me. Your wife is under way more stress than you and her body is still recovering (physically/hormonally). Our situation was compounded by a serious episode of post-partum depression. Fortunately, we got through that intact.

- This time will be over quickly and some day you will actually look back and miss it.

> Last night, my wife was almost yelling at the baby because she won't drink the milk and it was really frustrating. This needs to change.

Try to be understanding of her stress and do anything you can to alleviate it.

> Our baby wakes up every 3 hours on average for milk and her mother is pumping milk.

She can pump during the day and put the milk in the fridge.

> Our own relationship (wife and I) seems shaky suddenly and she has started resenting me.

You need to communicate. You need to understand your wife is healing and under the stress of much more responsibility than you. Try not to take the resenting personally. Support her any way you can.

And yes, I learned all of this the hard way by making a lot of the above mistakes.

1) Lack of sleep is used as a form of torture in some countries. Your wife needs to be able to sleep whenever the child is asleep.

2) Feeding is often something that people worry about. Check with a health visitor / doctor; if the baby is thriving then everything is okay. Maybe try different teats? Make sure the milk is the right temperature. Try different chairs.

If none of that is working you could offer to do alternate nights for a week. This allows her to get at least some rest.

Your wife needs support through the day. She needs to have time just for herself, and time with friends, and time with friends and the child.

Post natal blues and post natal depression do happen and are normal, so support your wife if she wants to get treatment.

Things do get a bit better when the child is sleeping longer. After about 6 months you can start techniques to help your child sleep through the night.

> Things do get a bit better when the child is sleeping longer. After about 6 months you can start techniques to help your child sleep through the night.

With the caveat that every child is different, there's no reason to delay "sleep-through-the-night techniques" until a child is 6 months old. We've found that by explicitly managing the eating schedule of our children, they've developed routines that get them sleeping through the night between 8 and 10 weeks.

Newborns are constantly adapting to the world around them. If you have a routine in place, they'll figure out how to adapt to it, and that can translate directly to more sleep for parents and happier parent <-> child bonding times. If it didn't have such a huge impact on parental quality of life, I'd say it doesn't matter how you approach getting them to sleep through the night. But it does have a huge impact, so it's foolish not to consider that when determining your approach to raising a newborn.

> With the caveat that every child is different, there's no reason to delay "sleep-through-the-night techniques" until a child is 6 months old.

I meant 'controlled crying' techniques, which must not be used before the child is 6 months old.

Hadn't ever heard it called "controlled crying" before. It looks like this is also called "self-soothing".

From reading the first few articles on a google search of the topic, this looks very similar in nature to the Baby-wise technique of establishing a routine which will cause the child to settle into a nighttime routine and let them sleep through the night.

Why wait until the child is 6 months old? I didn't see any reasons given on the (admittedly few) articles I read. Children crave routine, and ISTM that the best time to establish one is as soon as the parents are ready for it.

We are expecting our first baby in a couple of months too. So, no real experience here but I want to share some info that I gathered from different sources, in case it might be helpful.

If the baby cries at night and don't want to eat its a sign to look for another reasons. There's non obvious one: gases in the tummy. They appear because of an adrenalin which baby got with the milk. If mother is angry/stressed an adrenalin goes into her blood and then into milk. The baby eats, his tummy filles with gases, he cries, mother wakes up stressed and so on... The way to get out of this loop is to decrease the amount of stress for the mother. I know it's hard, because of harmones rage in her blood but you need to be a psychologist here and try to calm he down.

Like they say, keep calm and carry on. It should get better in few weeks.

Congratulations! I hope everything goes well for you!

It sounds like a major source of tension is breast feeding. Have you looked into hiring a breast feeding coach?

Another note is that babies in my experience are oddly perceptive to the parents being stressed out or tense (not in any sort of damaging way). Try to do anything you guys possibly can to relax... massage, walks, whatever, etc etc and you may find she feeds better and is generally easier on you guys.

Lastly your situation is more common than unique. At the worst you'll muddle through it and look back and say thank god thats over. It feels like torture now but you guys will be fine - every couple Ive known in your situation goes through some form of this with a new child.

The thing with breast feeding is that my wife is soon to go back to work and she will have to pump anyway. So she chose to pump from the beginning (for better or worse). I think I have to be more proactive to her needs and try and do some things differently.

I understand the reasoning here, and the pump is a wonderful piece of technology to make use of, but there's still something very mechanical about pumping. If it's an option, your wife may find it more relaxing to try breastfeeding on occasion.

totally agreed. she has actually started trying it lately but not 100%.

I don't understand choosing the pump from the beginning... People choose that as a solo option and not an additional means? Is it a nipple thing? | (sorry if too personal, just hacking) Isn't it natural comfort for a woman to breast feed? Brings the connection together? I do not know everything about brains and emotion bit it kind of makes sense, just like making love to her.

Pumping is fine. Recognize that going to work can be a huge source of stress for Mom due to the degree to which staying at home is often promoted as an ideal for women. Men are not immune to this either, of course. Twelve years on, it remains a source of misgiving for my wife. But at least now it crosses my radar more frequently.

Your wife is the primary caregiver. Be patient. Listen instead of trying to fix. Taking care of her is the hard role with which you have been tasked.

Not that you need one more thing to do, but my wife and I (proud parents of 4, with our youngest also 2 months old), have found this book to be very helpful in learning how to guide a newborn into a good sleeping schedule.

http://www.amazon.com/Becoming-Baby-Wise-Giving-Nighttime/dp...

If you just do one thing from that book, choose to regulate the sleep/eat/awake cycle of your child.

And now some generic pointers you may have already heard:

- Every child is different, but parenting approaches not so much. Pick an approach that emphasizes the goals you want to achieve (regulate sleep, minimize crying, parental free time, etc.) and adapt it to your child in the particulars (approach says feed every 3 hours, but Sally is hungry after 2.5).

- Getting enough sleep is hard, but important, for both of you. If family can watch the baby so one or both of you get naps, absolutely take advantage of that.

- Be patient with your spouse, assume her intentions are good and give her the benefit of the doubt.

- In a time when your wife is resentful of you, ask her directly if there's anything you can do to alleviate some burden from her.

- Parenting is a constant reminder that you don't know what you're doing, so don't feel bad about that. Bill Watterson put it rather well in C&H: http://qph.is.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-a0c61445794a690aa3a00f4...

- It does get easier, especially when the kid drops a middle-of-the-night feeding.

Lastly, I just want to say that you aren't alone, our 7 week old is still up every 3 hours through the night, and lately our oldest has been waking up at 4:30 (which does not coincide with a time that we're up with the youngest). This has been the hardest lack of sleep to adjust to out of our 4 kids, and my wife is exhausted. Still, we're as close as a couple as we've ever been, and you only get that from doing whatever it takes to survive the hard times with someone else.

First, you have my respect for raising 4 kids. I mean it in a good way :). Some good advice there. Looking at the book for sure. I think like many others are saying, the sleep cycle will get better but it is never too early to start trying out techniques. For example, we are using crib, swing, secure sleeper etc. to try and put her to sleep in addition to me walking her around on my shoulders or sitting with her in our laps.

Every child adds a new dynamic to your life, and our lives are very dynamic at this point ;-)

Two other things I want to mention:

- Kids are incredibly resilient. They will not break even if you make mistakes.

- Crying and fussing is not always a sign that you need to do something. Babies cry. If your child has a clean diaper, isn't hungry, and doesn't need to burp, there's no harm done in letting them cry themselves to sleep in a crib, in a room by themselves.

Many people nowadays, parents included, consider those to be very harsh ideas. But really, it won't harm the child or you (physically, mentally, emotionally) to let them cry themselves to sleep.

I am very intrigued by the idea of "let them cry to sleep". I will talk to the pediatrician about it but does this really work ? Also does it harm the baby in any way ? Honestly, 2 mins of her crying makes us get up and take her in our arms.

You must not use controlled crying techniques until the child is at least 6 months old - that's about the age that children can cry voluntarily.

Before that point the only reason they cry is to tell you that they need something. To stop them crying you have to address that need. They're either hungry, or cold, or hot, or have trapped wind, or lonely.

There is plenty of conflicting research, but I chose to pick the research that supports my point of view. (Which is all supporting 'attachment parenting'.)

When you do start the technique it is NOT 'just leave them to cry'. The child cries. You go in and calm her without taking her from the crib. You then leave before she's gone back to sleep. If she cries you wait one minute, then go back in and calm her, then leave again. If she cries you wait 2 minutes. You repeat this, adding a minute on each time.

Sometimes she might not settle at all. You can stay in the room. Don't make eye contact. Make loud sshhhsss noises. Pat her on the back. Don't take her from the cot unless there's a need to.

It's important to set aside 2 weeks for this process. Usually it doesn't take that long, most children settle in after 2 or 3 nights. But you must be consistent.

I'd like to respectfully disagree.

> There is plenty of conflicting research, but I chose to pick the research that supports my point of view.

I'm in the same boat as you here, I've heard arguments from both sides, and eventually you have to pick the one that "feels right". It's hardly a data-driven decision.

> Before that point the only reason they cry is to tell you that they need something. To stop them crying you have to address that need. They're either hungry, or cold, or hot, or have trapped wind, or [are] lonely.

Or, again, you've set up their expectations about what happens next and they're letting you know they're ready for it.

> <snip self-soothing technique> > It's important to set aside 2 weeks for this process. Usually it doesn't take that long, most children settle in after 2 or 3 nights. But you must be consistent.

See, I don't think this whole technique is substantially different from doing the same thing at 6 weeks. The reason "controlled crying" involves so much in-and-out of the bedroom, is because you are re-training the child's expectations. You've spent 6 months telling the child "If you cry when you don't need anything else, I'll pick you up" and so of course you have to ease them into it, because it's an unexpected change of the routine.

The goal is the same, the result is the same, the effect on the child is the same, the only difference is that Baby-wise says that a child of 6 weeks is capable of learning how to sleep, whereas "controlled crying" is saying a child must be 6 months.

I'll point you again to the Baby-wise book. Honestly after the second child, we stopped looking to the book and just went remembered the general advice and modified it to fit the child.

> I will talk to the pediatrician about it ...

By all means do, but also realize that the "science" of child rearing is anything but settled, and your pediatrician may have personal bias toward one method over another (not that that's a bad thing, just be aware of it).

> does it harm the baby in any way ?

I'm speaking here from experience, not academic study, but I'll say in an unhesitating voice, No. Our babies, as well as friends' children who have followed similar techniques, have all been on a regular eat, then wake/play, then sleep schedule as advocated in The Book. My older three children all have incredibly different personalities, from the goofy intellectual, to the excitable thespian, to the Little Annie Oakley who is currently stealing my heart. We've let each of them go through periods of self-soothing, and none of them appear any worse for the wear.

As I said, newborns are immediately adapting to their environment. Whether you're intending to or not, you're conditioning them to "the routine" of the house. If the routine is "I eat for 30 minutes. Then I am awake for 30 minutes. Then I am held while I sleep for an hour and a half. Then I lay down on my own for 30 minutes. Rinse and repeat" then they will adapt to that routine, and the crying you are hearing is their way of saying "Hey, you aren't following the routine, you're supposed to be holding me now."

There are people that let their children cry when they do have genuine needs. I'm not advocating that you do that. I'm simply saying that if you know their needs are met, and many times you will, letting them cry is OK. If you're in doubt, feel free to err on the side of picking them up and holding them.

The OP is talking about a 2 month old baby.

> Babies cry. If your child has a clean diaper, isn't hungry, and doesn't need to burp [...] in a room by themselves.

Children under 6 months probably shouldn't be in their own room, and you should try to work out why the child is crying.

It is rare for a child under 6 months to just cry if all her needs have been met. Colic - babies who cry for no apparent reason - is incredibly stressful and is distressing for parents to cope with. The parents might need extra support and learning extra techniques for rocking. ('Tiger in the Tree' or swinging the legs) or baby massage techniques.

http://www.dunstanbaby.com/

The stress may come from the crying of your child. My older brother and his wife had the same stress problems (don't know about the resentment part), but mainly due to the fact that they couldn't understand what the baby wants from his crying. The frustration of not being able to appease that cry can in fact produce great stress, try the Baby Listener's advice. It worked for my brother and his wife. Search for videos about it.

Infants wake when hungry, so duration of sleep begins as a function of stomach capacity. Within a month your daughter should be sleeping six hours a night at least.

Meanwhile, if your wife is expressing milk, you should share the small hours duty: spell her for a couple of nights to let her make a dent in her sleep deficit. (I confess that I did not, but I was not asked to.) And sometimes, the infant just needs to be walked around for 10 or 15 minutes--you can do that part.

Warning: I have no experience with parenting.

In my opinion you need someone who has lot of experiencing taking care of a 2 month old and have them with you for few days so that you and your wife can connect with each other and realize the beautiful phase you guys are going through.

My guess is that both of you are overwhelmed right now which can always make things seem worse than they are.

I agree. I am trying to get one of our parents (from either side) to come and stay with us for a couple of months. Thanks for the advice.

Are you breastfeeding or just pumping milk? The act of breastfeeding typically soothes and knocks the baby right out.

All my advice in one word: http://i.imgur.com/ectqP.gif

Congratulations! But this is a highly stressful time for parents. Be gentle with each other (it sounds like you are doing that) - both of you are not getting enough sleep, your bodies are still adapting, and you are learning a ton of new things. Do not hesitate to ask family and friends for much more help - this is a time to lean on those close to you, and you give them the nice gift of allowing them to help.

This rough time will pass, most probably in a matter of a few more weeks. You will increasingly be able to cope. Do keep consulting with your pediatrician with any questions - it's ok to ask as many questions as you have. None of us are born knowing how to care for a new baby. If your baby's weight is on target, don't worry so much about occasional feeding difficulties.

If you can afford, absolutely get someone to help with household tasks - the cleaning, shopping, cooking. Talk to the people at work and rearrange some things temporarily - most all of us understand the stress of a new baby - can you shift your work hours? Can you work from home temporarily? Can you work three or four days a week instead of five, etc? Can you take some paternity leave?

Postpartum blues are common and will pass quickly, but have a low threshold for either of you to get an evaluation from MD if depression develops. Keep talking to friends and family and let people know what you're going through.

Humor is a strong and highly mature defense. If in 10 years you're going to laugh about today's 4AM emergency diaper change, you might as well just start laughing now.

Thx. Tryhing a few of the options you mentioned. I totally know that we will laugh it off very soon. Hoping for that.