Unemployment Rates Are Meaningless for Programmers | Hacker News Reader

Unemployment Rates Are Meaningless for Programmers

heather.cs.ucdavis.edu

15 pointsvaksel20 comments

From the article: Personal testimonials are even more powerful than the statistics

Statistics can be molded to fit whatever the statitician wants to say, but anecdotes are worse.

no kidding. when i read that statement it told me the article has no credibility.

I'm 53 and currently trying to run a small (non-software but high-tech) startup. I may be going back to Oracle programming soon. Does anyone know how much resistance there is to hiring middle-aged guys out there? It's been about 10 years since I've looked.

Ageism is still absolutely rampant in the industry.

Thanks for the feedback, disappointing though it is. What really makes it a shame is that I know how much better I am than when I was younger. More mature and with a much better business sense. Damn.

I'm 53 and I have the opposite problem. I have so much paying work that I have trouble finding time for my start-up. And everywhere I go, I'm the best programmer they've seen, regardless of age. Sounds like you could be in the same boat if you'd adjust you're thinking and give it a better shot.

Many people are primarily focused on getting the work done. If someone rejected me because of age (or anything else unrelated to the work), it's a self-correcting problem. Their bias clearly demonstrates enough mind-fuckedness that if it wasn't for this stupid decision, I'd be leaving them for some other stupid thing before too long anyway.

If you're as good as you think, get out there and get to work. Someone needs you, believe me.

That's great to hear. I'm 30 with my first kid on the way, and definitely been concerned over where my career will go in the next 20 years. I only came to a silicon valley company 2 years ago, but been doing web work for 13. I was intimidated that I would only be average in silicon valley, but thankfully I found that while there is more talent here overall, there's still just as high a percentage of talentless hacks or brilliant people who don't know how to actually ship.

I think the key is working in environments where your value can be seen and really build your reputation and networks so that by the time you're middle-aged no one has to ask if you know language X, instead they say "this is the guy who built Y". At least that's my plan.

by the time you're middle-aged

I'll let you know when I get there.

That's not to say that you can't find a job - just that there are certain people who will have a bias against you. Perhaps you're not interested in working there anyway.

Depends on the area of the industry you're working in. I believe corporate IT departments are ironically more forgiving than the supposedly liberal startup scene, which tends to be younger and more suspicious of older workers, reflecting a trend in the society at large which equates youth with being "in one's prime".

I've worked in both startups and corporate IT depts, and that would be my take as well. Large companies are far more concerned with anti-discrimination law. They also strongly prefer a stable workgroup, which is helped (I think) by a bit of additional age.

Getting a full-time job as a programmer after being away from that career for ?how long? may be a bigger problem than your age. HR doesn't seem to take kindly to that.

Yeah, that's part of the concern, too. I've been doing biotech for almost 4 years. That could be a bigger problem.

Every time I read this article, which I have done three or four times since it was published, I think it has much more to do with UC Davis than with computer science majors in general.

I'm not sure what aspect you mean, specifically, but I can agree with at least one. I got my CSE degree from Davis, and I found a significant portion of my classmates (read: half) to be bright but otherwise uninterested in CS, there simply because they hoped to get a well paying job or their parents pushed them to be engineers.

I don't know if this is a problem particular to this stratosphere in higher education, geographic location (near the bay area), or if it's simply more common than I think.

(The other half of students were really great, don't get me wrong. I can't speak highly enough of the faculty either.)

I don't see anything in that article that doesn't equally apply to all white and even most blue collar workers. And the whole thing has a Ooo poor me, the world is so dire! feel.

I'd disagree, as other professions - say for example, accounting, finance, customer service, HR, would not have a similar limitation so specifically limited.

And it is a dire feel when you actually experience it. As a 45 year old developer currently seeking employment, it's tough. Your ability and potential does not matter anymore (even when willing to take a step-back to an entry-level position), it's just a specific skill set. The so-called lack of programming talent in America is not taking into account the lack of companies willing to actually hire experienced and competent, but just lacking a specific language, programmers that are available.

I read the article but I'm not sure what you mean by this statement. > I'd disagree, as other professions - say for example, accounting, finance, customer service, HR, would not have a similar limitation so specifically limited.

Could you please elaborate?

The gap between what would be a smart hire, an experiened programmer, vs what is a stupid hire, any guy with 10+ years of RoR experience, is always grim. And woe onto any good programmer screwed by a stupid requirement for language x.

But there are alternatives. Look for smarter employers, employ yourself, and lastly switch industry and program for fun, if you're good you will get noticed.

Yes True.

as a new developer to the programming, I really don't mind about the numbers blogs like Techcrunch are showing. I feel that the Internet is so large and opportunities are always available if you are competent

Reply on news.ycombinator.com