Comment by hacker789 | Hacker News Reader

Comment by hacker789 | Hacker News Reader

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> It's fine to be a "race traitor" or gender traitor if yours dominates.

Your use of the word "dominates" is disingenuous. Let's imagine:

- - -

There exists a country in which 95% of all leadership in government and industry is male. There are a few women here and there, but for the most part, it's all men at the top. And at the top, people are pretty protected. They can generally get away with whatever they want, as is often the case.

This country has gender roles. Legally enforced gender roles. Women are viewed as more fragile caregivers. Men are viewed as sturdier providers. People at the top of society are pretty insulated, but for everyone else, these gender roles are a fact of life.

For a given crime, men are held to higher standards, and they are subjected to more brutal punishments. Men overwhelmingly find themselves in dangerous, thankless jobs.

Young men tend to work menial jobs, while young women tend to attend university.

Men do not live as long in this society. An overwhelming amount of public money and attention is spent on issues that primarily affect women.

And when a woman is perceived to be slighted, men and women are expected (and socially rewarded) for rushing to her aid. Men, being sturdier, are expected to fend for themselves.

- - -

Every well-off feminist man I've encountered would say that men in that society are not victims of sexism—they are simply victims of patriarchy.

Why on Earth would one call that system "patriarchy"? Aside from the top of society, men have it worse in this society. Men have it much worse. Why lump the men at the top in with the men at the bottom just because they all have penises?

Please realize that men can be sexist toward other men. Men can actively oppress other men on the basis of their gender. Men love competing with other men. Men love one-upping other men. Men love protecting women from those other, less civilized men. In short: Many men love oppressing other men.

For poorer, underprivileged men, it's incredibly marginalizing to hear a hyper-privileged man display his plumage and say it's alright to hate males, because males "dominate" society.

Unfortunately, repeating that mantra costs that hyper-privileged man nothing, yet it can potentially increase his social standing among other hyper-privileged men. So why wouldn't he?

You might not realize it but the thing you're complaining about? That's the Patriarchy to a t. No one thinks 'patriarchy' means 'all men oppressing all women.' except people constructing straw men. Patriarchy is the force that both tells women they belong at home and tells men that it's honourable to die in war. It's all around us.

Not really. Patriarchy literally means "rule of the fathers", and the point being made when people talk about the patriarchy is exactly that all men are, fundamentally, more like the handful of men at the top than any women is - that men at all levels benefit from the power structures within society.

In fact, the reason it was called "patriarchy" in the first place was to draw an analogy between men who ruled entire nations and patriarchs who had no influence outside their own family - to treat them as though they shared in and benefitted from the exact same male-dominated power structures in the same ways, ignoring little details like some of them having far more downsides than benefits.

I'm not constructing a straw man. You'll be bullied until you go silent if you claim to be a feminist while asserting that men can be victims of sexism, or that whites/Asians can be victims of racism[1].

You can use the word "Patriarchy". You can use the phrase "male domination". But it doesn't change the fact that men at the bottom have to watch the men at the top stomping all over them while preening themselves.

[1]: http://goatinahat.tumblr.com/post/45265637509/behaxrant-wesh...

Conservative fundamentalists bully me for being born the wrong way and having liberal views, and recently the liberals have all taken to bullying me as well whenever I post stuff about, well, male victims of sexism or white/asians being victimized by racism.

It's an incredibly cruel thing to do. For example, I saw my mother beating my father all the time when I was growing up, yet I get a bunch of straight liberals yelling at me if I mention supporting the establishment of domestic violence shelters for men about how they can't believe any "legitimate" GLBT person would support something like that. I once had a person tell me that she couldn't believe any self respecting GLBT person would support them, since "ANY study" would show that men were predominantly the agressors. I linked her to 200 studies showing equal rates of male vs female aggressors, and she made a vague post about cleaning her friendslist based on "politics" and promptly removed me. I don't know how to deal with people who literally refuse to acknowledge that my entire childhood is something that could never exist. Or refuse to recognize that they're wrong, when science says something that happens to contradict their pre established worldview.

It's incredibly bewildering, and more than a little cruel. I have to deal with the memories and trauma of my childhood, on top of conservatives AND liberals being unwilling to associate with me because of my views. That are mostly based on how and where I was born (GLBT, and understanding of how women assert their "female privilege" within our current society, which is matriarchal in many respects, based on observing my mother in action for 17 years).

Conservatives hate women and liberals hate men. What's an egalitarian to do? :(

I'm already severely marginalized, and liberals shunning me isn't exactly helping. I wish they'd stop enforcing mandatory privilege checks and actually just listen to the people they pretend to be advocating for, even just for once.

Even if women were literally never aggressive against men, it's nonsensically cruel to use that as a reason against shelters for men.

"You don't deserve a safe space, John, because people with your genitals are the ones committing violence."

They have disturbingly collectivist notions of guilt.

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