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Comment by tomkarlo | Hacker News Reader

I worked at Lehman for 4+ years (left in 2008) and while I didn't feel so negative about work (I was more senior than the OP) I definitely was in a spot where I knew that if I kept at it for another 10-20 years -- no matter how much money I made -- I would feel like I wasted my time.

I went back to tech, and now I have a job where I'm still well paid by any reasonable standard, and I really enjoy what I work on and who I work with. Given how much of our lives we spend at work and thinking about work, it can be a mistake to overvalue compensation as an element in our career decisions.

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I'm always curious when I hear things like "Lehman for 4+ years" because, based on the numbers thrown around on HN and blogs like this, it seems likely you could have a net worth over a million dollars.

While not the "F You" money many here dream of, it still seems like a few years on wall street would give you a nest egg that would make it easy to live comfortably on any other salary (whether that's tech or teaching or bartending).

Do many of wall streeters who left after 5ish years do that? Or do most of them blow all their money? I think being under 30, a millionaire and having $PRESTIGIOUS_FIRM on your resume would be a pretty good setup, even if the work itself sucked.

That's not generally how it seems to work. For junior bankers under 30 (analysts and associates) you're making good money, but not such great money that you're putting away hundreds of thousands of dollars a year after your expenses and taxes. I can't recall ever hearing of someone saying, "I've worked 5 years, I've saved $500K, but instead of making $500K next year, I'm going to retire."

Also, the lifestyle (and partner, and kids) that you end up with while making banker money means that $1M is not remotely "quitting money", because it won't last long enough. I'd guess most folks would talk about $25M or $50M min for that in the industry, and you're not saving that anywhere below MD. Bankers have banker wives, banker mortgages, and their kids have banker tuitions. (One of my bosses had an $8M mortgage on a $12M home. That's ~$30K in mortgage payments a month... no way he could quit) I'm not saying anyone should feel bad for them, just the whole idea of "save up $1M and quit" doesn't make any sense in reality.

Finally, there's a lot of pride/ego/image folks have in their job and their job title, for better or worse. Even if it ruins their life. I didn't love being a banker, but I can't deny it's not fun telling folks you're an investment banker.

(Also, it's worth pointing out that people don't go work 100 hour weeks for years on end just so they can quit with $1M. They're doing it to have $10M or $100M.)

I absolutely understand that $1M doesn't seem like much while on wall street, as I said in my original comment it's not early retirement / "F You" money. For the purely money-driven clearly they keep working and living the lifestyle.

But for the people who do leave, as you did, and the blog author, and presumably the others considering which foul acts are better than going to work each day, I have to think their lives are still on a much easier trajectory. If you have $500k and hate your life, you can easily take a year off to figure out a new plan, go to grad school without worrying about cost or lost wages, start a company, etc. If you hate your job as a dishwasher you probably don't have a lot of options, but as a wall streeter, it seems like you should be able to walk away at any point and still be better off than 95% of Americans.

I guess I just wonder how many people do take that opportunity. $500k makes you a BSD in most of the US, but if you've only ever known prep school, ivy league then wall street, I suspect the idea of living and working elsewhere sounds repugnant.

I worked for two years in Canary Wharf and didn't change my lifestyle so I was able to save some money. I just announced I was quitting this week and I am currently trying to think about what to do next. Which can be pretty much anything. It's hard to decide what to do next when there's no limit.

Most of my friends did change their lifestyles while working in Canary Wharf and when they decided to leave they had no money at all. I'm glad I avoided that.

Yes, but you're forgetting that this is a business where pretty much the only reason you're there and successful is because you're either enormously ego or money driven. Otherwise you just wouldn't last. Lots of people don't last very long regardless.

Someone who will work 100+ hours a week -- despite being able to make $200K at a regular 40 hour a week job -- is not the kind of person who "takes a break" because they have a little cushion in the bank. These are incredibly hard core people who spend every minute of their day figuring out how to be just a little bit more successful than they are right now. Their goals are to make millions per year.

I've worked with people who were worth more than $2B and up and would pretty much cut your heart out with a spoon if it meant an extra $100 in their pocket. As another banker pointed out, that's part of why they're worth $2B, and we're not.

The fact of the matter is that banks are up or out. Most people won't make MD, either because they can't stand it anymore or they're asked to leave. So most "take that opportunity." As for what they do--they take a few hundred K and a prestigious job title to a cushy corp finance position or similar. The superstars go to a hedge fund and make even more money.

Usually you don't get a really high salary until you've worked a few years in the field. That's the trap, you think "I'll work there a few years and save up", but then after a few years you get to the point where your salary is really going up and it's hard to leave when you start making real money...

Yeah... I was going to add this. When you're making X, but you can see making 2X in a year or two, you're very reluctant to let it go. It's just human nature (and you also don't tend to consider the outcomes where you don't make 2X, or the opportunity cost.)

You're probably not saving a million in four years. First year analyst is like $120k or $130k all in. First year associate (fourth year in, -ish) is like $250-300k?

Something like that. Plus there are partial years involved - new classes arrive halfway through the year, so you only get 1/2 the bonus that year.

Also, only a very small percentage of people last that long. Figure maybe 20-25% of first year analysts survive three years to become associates, and maybe 20-25% of new post-MBA associates survive three years to become VPs. (Some leave for better jobs, of course.)

I used to keep a spreadsheet listing every member of my associate class, and the date they quit. I handed it off when I left; I'd guess that 9 years later no more than 5 out of something like 80 are left at the same bank, but they're probably Managing Directors.

Amen.

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