Ask HN: Is college for everyone?
What do you think about dropping out? What if you had kids? Would you let them? Cheers!
What do you think about dropping out? What if you had kids? Would you let them? Cheers!
The world is changing too fast to wait four years to start your life. You will have a four year head start over your peers that went to school if you stop now.
22 or 23 is too late to start life in the 21st century. College will waste your time. You are thirsty for knowledge and there is more to learn online than you can learn in the classroom.
I would recommend getting some consulting work and make your own money as soon as possible so your parents have less power over you.
In a couple years they will see the wisdom of your decision.
Edit:
> What do you think about dropping out? What if you had kids? Would you let them? Cheers!
I say drop out. My plan for my kids (if they are above average intelligence) is for them to get a GED at 16 and start their real adult life at that point. High school and college are relics in my opinion. Our current conception of school is very recent, and I believe we delay adulthood far too long.
Edit 2:
Learn macro economics on your own. Read, all the time. You can learn much faster than your peers in classrooms if you are a dedicated autodidact.
True, college is not for everyone. But this kid is posting a question that could potentially impact the rest of his life. Is this really the level-headed advice he should hear:
"If you listen to your parents and waste four or five years at college you will be financially worse off and regret it. Your parents care about you and think they are giving you good advice but they are not."
To be honest, that's shit. It's ignorant, and no better than calling everyone without degrees a bum.
What should be said is pretty much what his parents are hinting at. Go to college for security, unless you have something really special lined up. Trust me, it is very very hard to get a good job without a degree (and still hard to get a good job with one). You can still have plenty of time to work on side projects while in school. You can always go to school later, but it never gets any easier.
Edit: man, there is just so much to be said after re-reading all this. And each time I disagree with you more. The fact you are so absolute, that fact that you are so wrong...
Look 23 is not too late for anything. The world moves fast now, but evolution in a person occurs much longer than ever before. You change for a long time. It's not capped by 28.
Do whatever you want for your kids, but I suggest keep a close-minded idea like that to yourself. You don't have to embrace college as the end all, but do realize the world we are living in.
Please, don't make me drink the hemlock.
There is a reason that ronakgp94 is even asking this question. Things have changed, times have changed. There are options for self education that did not exist even ten years ago. The field that he is going into is one where getting a good job without a college degree is almost trivial.
Listen to the words that he is saying. He doesn't like school, he doesn't want to be there, he wants to work on his product.
olso4052, I'm being earnest relaying a seldom heard view point. I have a tale to tell of the darker side of academia. Hear me out, and keep an open mind. I spoke in absolutes because of the strength of my conviction on this topic. I don't expect everyone to agree with me, I know most don't.
College is hell if you don't want to be there. It creates an environment of chronic low level stress. Low level stress leads to depression. Scientists need depressed rats in order to test the efficacy of an anti-depressant. They get depressed rats by exposing them to chronic low level stress. It works every time.
There is a reason suicide rates are high among college students. Academia often creates high pressure pointless busy work and unrealistic deadlines.
Many campuses have a culture of binge drinking. Chronic stress and binge drinking lead to anxiety, depression and lower intelligence.
Alcohol is a potent neurotoxin, and it's swilled with abandon as a rite of passage. Student that embrace this culture leave college with more knowledge, but diminished mental faculties and perhaps the start of a problem with alcohol.
The financial security of a college degree is not what it used to be. I believe that the tipping point has been reached where those that pressure young people to go to college are now giving poor financial advice unless they are entering certain majors.
One of my oldest friends went to NYU for four years. She racked up a lot of student debt, spent six post college years working low end jobs and eventually had to move out of nyc because she couldn't even afford to share a one bedroom apartment in a bad part of town.
NYU tuition is at least $20,000 x 4 = $80,000, unless it is subsidized by others.
This kid could probably go out today and get a job making $80,000 a year. The math could go a lot of ways but after four years you could either be looking at many tens of thousands of debt or a savings account with six figures in it and a lot of on the job experience, and a lot lower stress.
No matter how you slice it college is over priced, even if other people pay for you. The internet has driven the cost of information down to almost zero, and there is no reason to spend tens of thousands of dollars a year to learn.
Fear not, college is being disrupted. College administrators got fat on their student loan bubble, and scrappy start ups backed by Bill Gates and others are coming to knock them off their perch.
Of one thing I am sure. The cost of college is unsustainable and getting the public to subsidize it further will be tough with out large budget deficits and debt.
To paraphrase Elon Musk, a college professor is like a Vaudeville actor, and the coming online education will be like a Hollywood movie. Why be taught by average minds when the greatest minds can record their lessons once and scale to infinity?
I had fun in college, yes, and I learned some things in class. I would have had much more fun, gotten my life started earlier and made a lot more money if I lived on my own in a place like NYC from 18-22. I really wish I could get that $80 grand on tuition back, I would so much rather have bought a house than gone to college classes.
-- Just one man's opinion, take it with a grain of salt.
Are you being overly narcissistic? Probably, but that's fine - it's an opinion and he should hear it. But saying so concretely that it's always bad and will always do X and ruin X is really a poor way to convey information, especially to a younger fellow looking for answers.
However, the main thing it sounds like we disagree on is the future of education. You are correct that there are lots of problems with the college system, but all I can see is it growing. College just brings you to the table, like a high school degree did 40 years ago. Now it's grad school that sets you apart, education wise. I can only see that continuing to evolve into the future. Hopefully what is taught becomes more practical, but higher-learning is not leaving.
You're main point about getting knowledge elsewhere is true. However. 1) it's very difficult to convey to the outside world that you have that info without a degree, and 2) very few people are motivated enough to actually do that. Bill Gates is a rare example, we can all agree on that. I'm sure this kid will be able to read a dozen econ and marketing books and come out ahead, and so your advice could make sense to him. However, very few people are going to have the initiative, and so college will continue to thrive.
If you are selling all your college stock, I'm buying it, and feeling pretty good.
This might not be the case in the future but it is a reality in the present.
Of course if you are successful in your company and have large sums of money at your disposal investment of $1 million or so in your destination country should get you a work visa, degree or no degree.
1) Parents don't know everything, however they love you and are looking after your welfare. They think your best bet is college. I have taken choices other than what my parents thought best, and worked out. Maybe you will too.
2) As others said, your startup has a likelihood to fail, or at least you'll encounter some major hurdles on the way. You have to keep that in mind. You might be extremely excited, but do you have user validation?
3) College has a lot of benefits outside just the boring education part, and not all of your courses are macroeconomics! (which I did take, and found interesting, but YMMV). Many courses help with basics you might need in the future. Doing things in practise is a great way to learn, only there are some theoretical things you won't come across unless you do some kind of structured course (can be college, Coursera or whatever). In my case, I tend to procrastinate, so college imposed some rules and forced me to study, which I otherwise wouldn't have done on my own. It also opens your mind.
4) You'll meet like-minded people and broaden your horizons. Especially if you get into a college you want.
That said, I don't know about how it works in the U.S., but you could do a "year off", see where your startup leads, and, if it doesn't, get into college a year later. It won't be the end of the world.
Something I believe you must do is try to "fail fast". Show your startup to the world. Heck, show it here - unless you believe it's a one trick pony we can easily copy, or some other competitive advantage - in that case show it to people you trust, but show your stuff to SOMEONE that will give you feedback. Especially people in your target, and people that don't know you / won't sugar coat it.
I'm sure you know about Steve Blank's philosophy, Lean Startups, Pre-totyping, etc. It sounds like it fits to what you're doing.
Edit: this is not legal advice :) , I'm 32, never did a startup (yet), work for a boring BigCo, did college and just finished a master's (loved the masters), still have friends from college.
The good news is that it sounds like your parents are not stupid and neither are you. That being said while you may have lots of good energy and exuberance towards your startup, it will (extremely likely) fail. To be a realist first attempts at startups are usually the first step in a long learning curve (although there are very rare exceptions). So instead of thinking about this specific company you should rather think of it as embarking on the path of being an entrepreneur - most people who take this path fail a lot, have a handful of wins, embrace volatility, and never grace the pages to Techcrunch. In short it is the high risk/reward path - almost like playing basketball with hopes of making the NBA (although typically with better outcomes for those who never make the big leagues).
The college path, assuming you are smart about it, dont take out crippling debt, and major in something half way useful, has benefits as well. Its typically an interesting experience intellectually, socially, and culturally. Despite what you may hear education is still very strongly correlated to earnings so in that regard it can typically open up opportunities to good paying jobs. It is also can allow for future educational opportunities (MBA, MS, etc) as well as more seamless industry changes if the bottom falls out of tech. In that regard it is the lower risk option that can give a jump start to ones career if done correctly.
The good thing is that neither option precludes the other. Start a startup, then go to college... Go to college, start a startup while your there... etc. Either option sounds interesting - my personal vote would be college in that Im more risk averse and it has been well studied that education correlates with entrepreneurial success.
Sounds like a good deal to me. I would only like to add that you should at least "consider" the other side of the equation and be prepared in case. What if you don't get accepted to YC ? What will be your back-up plan then ? You seem like a smart person who knows his priorities which is always a good thing. Just make sure you are not putting all your eggs in one basket.
If however your company is a serious affair I'd go for that. You can always go back to college in the future. And by serious affair I mean you can easily move out of your home in the next 9 months and support yourself.
If I had kids and they wanted to drop out and teach themselves something, I would be all for it. Although we are moving to a different place, companies seem to have a growing fascination with degrees thinking they're relevant or important when the reality is you probably use 5% of the degree you just got $75,000 into debt for, if you're lucky.
Dropping out isn't for everyone. Some people only learn when they're being taught and people like you and I teach ourselves and can get by on street smarts.
To me it sounds like you can do college but you care about other things more. Maybe you should compromise and try to get a freelancing career off the ground. In that sense, you're an independent business owner, you have freedom, you can support yourself, and you can easily work part time and do side projects. But getting going as a freelancer is a lot of work. If you must, ask your parents' support for this for a few years until you're self-supporting.
However, the social knowledge you pick up and the relationships you develop at college (especially if you spend all 4 years at the same university) are what I most value from my college experience. There are other avenues to develop these social skills and build a network, but college offers a great opportunity to do so.
If you ask me - quit and follow your dreams (i did so). Even if you make mistakes you will learn faster from them than the college.
College is for people that don't know what to do and are looking for orientation. Also if you don't have a degree, some people say it will be harder to get a job, which is one more reason to get your company of the ground.