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Comment by richforrester | Hacker News Reader

For a bit of nuance, instead of "fuck off", you could try something like "I disagree, but I'm pretty tired of that conversation", and change the topic.

Statement made, stupid comment brushed off, nobody got hurt.

The whole "down to their level and beat you with experience" thing comes to mind.

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So.. You're probably right. Here's my (quite possibly unreasonable) defense of the language I suggested...

It grinds conversations to a halt. "I disagree, but.." doesn't register shock. That's not the kind of language people use when they witness horror, or abuse. It's not emotional. If anything, if I was at the table and that was your reaction I'd probably take it to mean that your primary takeaway is to be annoyed at pesky sexism and how these unfortunate jock-types ruin it for the rest of us.

That's not how you'd respond to abuse. This is abuse.

Fuck you registers shock, and anger. It's not a naughty word, it's a tool. I think there's an appropriate time to use language like this, and I think this is it. I definitely don't see it as "coming down to their level", with all due respect I find that kind of absurd.

I agree with you 100% fuck off conveys exactly the response a comment like that warrants. It singles out the speaker and separates him from the conversation, just like his comment did to the woman. If he wants back in, he has to do so awkwardly and sheepishly, which is I'm sure exactly how the woman in the story felt

I'm conflicted about my feelings about this, but that's exactly my intent when I speak like this to someone. It's the desire to make them feel small and communicate how little I have respect for them in that moment. I'm honestly not sure if that's healthy. If I was charged with defending the opposing view I'd argue that it's fighting bullying with bullying, or that maybe the ability and desire to make insensitive comments like that in the first place come from feeling small and I'm only fueling the fire. I'm really not sure. I just know that it's worked for me in the past, at least in the small... in situations where I've wanted to diffuse a situation and shut someone up who's expression was abusive. I'm not convinced there's not a better way, though. I just really hope the takeaway to this thread isn't that I think it's obviously perfectly righteous and productive to react like this, just that I think it's (at least occasionally in my experience) effective, and vastly preferable to doing nothing.

"Fuck you registers shock, and anger."

Correct, but I assumed "I'm tired of losing friends over this" could refer to either side in the argument. If you don't want to hurt anyone, brush off silly comments and move on.

If you want to make a point, by all means.

ps.: "fuck off" might also trigger more discussion, which he's trying to avoid. It's easier to say "my opinion is different" than "your opinion is stupid".

I feel the need to emphasize. This was not a silly comment. It was abuse. This wasn't misplaced careless language, overheard. This was a targeted and abusive insult to another person who was sitting across the table.

Brushing off the 'silly' comment and moving on is the easiest way to hurt the target more than the comment already has.

I agree that it's easier to say that "my opinion is different", but it's chicken-shit and offers a level of respect that signals unwarranted sympathy. "Your opinion is stupid" would be a profoundly more appropriate statement had it been be, because it much better describes my feelings.

Without making specific slippery-slope arguments, surely at some point we'd all find it ridiculous to say "Thanks, but my opinion is different" after witnessing something disgusting, right? So I guess the question is where that line is for us individually. "You got this pass because of your tits" is severely past that line for me. It's miles deep into "Fuck off" territory.

Actually, I would argue that "fuck off" is the better response. "I disagree" implies that there's grounds for legitimate discussion when the initial remark is so far out of line there really isn't.

While I agree wholeheartedly, remember that some of the problem is the current dichotomy. The sexist ass on one hand and the too non-confrontational to say anything on the other. I'd posit that it's more useful to figure out a realistic way to get that second group to speak out--even if it's not a hearty "fuck off".

I'm a non-confrontational person myself actually. It took me over 35 years to learn being that direct is actually less stressful in certain circumstances. Quite arguably, I'm still learning it. We get it in our heads that we owe the asshole an explanation. That's a trap. The explanation becomes it's own source of stress. Odds are strong, the asshole knows they're being an asshole. No, explanation is required.

Yes. Not to mention: "I disagree" in this particular situation also has the unintended consequence of possibly implying something about whether she has nice breasts, while "fuck off" does not.

(One of the oddball cases where the "more polite" response may in fact, be more harmful)

Exactly, "Fuck off" gets the full message across loud and clear. It is also short enough that you can deliver the full message without any risk of interruption; just two syllables that can slip under the radar after you have the subjects attention.

  [looking the person in the eyes]
  "Hey [whoever]"
  [repeat as necessary until you have eye contact, at most one or two more times]
  "Fuck off."

There is no chance for them to interrupt you mid-protest to make excuses, and it sends a clear signal that the subject is not up for discussion.

If you can pull it off, something like "Really? I thought you were smarter than that…" works pretty well. You kinda need to be able to dominate the conversation with the comment though (which is often pretty easy if it's just one jerk speaking out of place, but can be much harder if they've got an audience-of-idiots laughing along with them).

One thing to keep on mind - the "offender" has given up any expectation or right of politeness or manners extended towards them - there's no need to craft a response that doesn't hurt their feelings, since they've already gone down that path. (I suspect if I were just the right amount of uninhibitedly drunk, I'd quite enjoy responding to "She only got the tickets 'cause of her tits" with "Yeah, that's what everyone with a tiny dick says…")

I think my response would be somewhere in the middle. I probably wouldn't curse the person ("fuck off") but frankly "I disagree, ..." is far too light of a response.

I would ask the offending person to leave. If they refused to leave, I would encourage all of my friends to leave.

Such a statement is so beyond-the-pale inexcusable that simply stating your opposition is insufficient. While I agree you don't need to "go down to their level", I see no reason to allow them any more of my time than is absolutely required (i.e. time spent organizing my friends' departure and paying for the check).

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