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Comment by fks | Hacker News Reader

Totally agree with you that the skills learned from messing around won't turn you into a fully skilled programmer. My argument is that if he'd learned algoritms, recursion, data structures, etc. he probably would have hated and dropped it, while instead he at least knows something, has the ability to teach himself more, and hopefully has fond memories. It's much better to foster a true interest in programming - even if they're not very good - if it will then lead them to improve themselves and enjoy doing it.

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Yeah. And as a newbie, which sounds like the more plausible path to successfully becoming a real programmer?

1. Can't do anything -> Learn to build stuff -> Learn to write good code

2. Can't do anything -> Learn to write good code -> Learn to build stuff

Plenty of folks need the motivation of seeing what cool stuff they can build to make it through the dry parts.

My (heavily biased) recommendation - start with c++ or some other annoying, slow language. I know other people say learn python or ruby, but I think that makes for sloppy programmers and bad habits.

First, read Introduction and Basics of C++ in the link below. Then make a text based rpg with 1-2 rooms. I would have a character and two bosses each with with power, toughness, and 1-2 attacks. Then read Compound Data Types and Object Oriented Programming from the link below. Finally, revise the code of the game to use objects (don't worry, that will make sense once you finish reading). Also, to emphasize your bossness, say that are "refactoring" your code.

As a gamer, I thought it was cool that I could make a simple game like this. Maybe you won't. In which case, my suggestion probably is worthless. But, I think that learning a more systems level language will force you to think more about your code and make you write better code in the long run.

Links: tutorial - http://www.cplusplus.com/doc/tutorial/ compiler - http://www.microsoft.com/visualstudio/eng/products/visual-st... - if you are on windows. If you're on linux, install g++ (sudo apt-get install g++ for ubuntu/debian and sudo yum install gcc-c++ for Fedora). If you're on a mac, no idea, I don't use macs.

I actually agree with making game-y stuff just for fun, because it allows you to think up and build rather intricate architectures real quick. It's hard to make a game as a newbie and not have it turn into spaghetti as you keep making it more complex, but it's also no biggie, and you get to learn how to recognize those things, what to improve etc. Practice with games, when you become more confident make applications; to me that makes sense? Playing games may be a shallow pastime, but making one can become more hardcore than one imagined real quickly. Just about anything in programming you could mention, certainly all the "pedestrian" things, could theoretically be put in a game - but a game can also be just two rectangles and one circle, and in that spectrum, and the absence of even the pretense of being useful, lies a great opportunity for experimentation and learning.

Make a simple clone of a game or application or graphical effect you adore, and go from there. There's still plenty of opportunity to suck the fun out of it later :P

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