An App That Moves Sports Fans to Better Seats | Hacker News Reader

An App That Moves Sports Fans to Better Seats

entrepreneur.com

32 pointssiliconbeach33 comments

> "A fan logs into the app, which determines through geolocation the user's exact position within the venue..."

In terms of the indoor venues/stadiums/etc. I have ever been to (honestly, quite a few), I ALWAYS have absolutely HORRIBLE reception on my iPhone (AT&T). I feel like this could be a massive issue for this sort of app. How can I use it, if it can't even figure out where I am or display the data inside the venue?

Possible solution: It would be nice if the venues that they teamed up with started offering free WIFI to help with this problem of poor reception or no data. Almost always, the venues have WIFI, but it is password protected. Maybe there are security concerns for having public WIFI at places like this that I am unaware of?

EDIT: I will also add more of a "real world" example of this. When I use Foursquare, I always have to "check-in" outside of the venue, because it can't even find where I am when I'm inside. Luckily, Foursquare's model allows you to do these "check-in's" manually (by searching), or before/after you attend the event. I think that is why they can get away with it, unlike an app like this. It seems like a big problem they would need to figure out before they launch.

Yes, same problem for my iPhone on Verizon. Maybe partnering with a major ticket seller so they know your exact position, or better yet, allow the user to scan their ticket with their phone. Still have the issue of bad reception though. Free wifi would be awesome but a major investment for 60,000+ people.

Depending on what ticketing system the venue is using we either have fans input their seat location manually or input their ticket barcode (scan feature to be released shortly).

Isn't the best case GPS position only within 10m anyways?

Would it be so bad to just enter your seat number into the app?

That doesn't solve the problem of the app not even working because data can't be passed back and forth. The app requires dynamic information to work correctly, and if that data going back and forth is inaccessible or not possible then it's pointless.

Most modern stadiums are moving that direction -- http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2013/03/the-49...

That is true, there are some moving that way. What about the hundreds of other stadiums that are not upgrading anytime soon, though? Again, seems like a big issue they have not addressed or mentioned.

Yeah connectivity is going to continue to only slowly get better. The cost of upgrading the infrastructure is just so high and older venues don't always have the room for upgrading DAS systems.

It'll be another 3 years before things are really ironed out in the newer buildings. Not sure how older ones will manage to deal with the situation.

Zach from pogoseat here. You guys bring up a great point about connectivity and it certainly is something worth noting. To help address we do our best to make the app as lightweight as possible. Additionally we look to partner with venues that have solid connectivity and thus far have had no issues in this area with our deployments at Stanford and the GS Warriors.

Cisco is helping improve the situation as well although it is expensive as was noted earlier. http://www.cisco.com/web/strategy/sports/stadium_wifi.html

with that problem being addressed, I would like to see in-game auction of the prime corporate seats that sit empty (but are purchased) and are usually heavily guarded. put real fans in the best seats.

gz5, great thinking. This is something we are working on doing soon for both corporate seats as well as individual fan seats. Venues of course want to push their unsold inventory first and so there are still some details to be hashed out here.

love the line "put real fans in the best seats".

we are working on getting program going where corporate season ticket holders can donate their unused seats or suite as last minute as they want thru our app to upgrade youth groups like boys and girls club of america at the game to an amazing experience. some details to be worked out but hoping to make good use of all unused inventory at an event

To me, this is similar to the music industry/pirating example. Find a black market, go to the source of the problem, improve the experience so that users will choose your legal method as the best alternative. In music/movies, it's providing easy-to-access, high quality streams and downloads; here it's providing a way to improve your experience at the ballpark.

Finding the right prices will be key, and take some time, but even less than optimal fee (from the stadium's perspective) will recoup some of the otherwise lost revenue.

How much can stadiums realistically expect to earn a night? Several thousand?

Potential is there to make much more than. depends on the size of venue & unsold / unused # of premium seats, type of event, sport, etc

This is a great idea, but it's bad news for me if it picks p at the stadiums I go to. I am always one of those "seat pirates" and with the app, the situation for me will change for the worse: instead of getting cheap tickets and then switching to a $200+ seat for free, I would have to pay for this from now on.

This is an example where, I hope, market equilibrium comes into play and works for the best. Like a hotel, a stadium would rather get >$0 for that $200 seat, even if they can't get the full $200. Right now, when you hop into it, they're getting $0 and you're hoping an usher doesn't check your ticket. It's sort of like jumping into an empty 1st class seat on an airplane, only you're (currently) less likely to get caught in a stadium.

Ideally, you should pay an amount that's fair to you and fair to the team without going to either edge case -- you paying $0 and "stealing" the seat, and you paying full boat.

The trick is finding that equilibrium price - and sometimes the stadium won't act logically. In theory, they should take anything >$0, but if they charge too little then people will stop paying full price in advance and just wait until the last minute. If they charge too much (I.e $150), it won't have any effect and they'll be right where they are now.

The illogical part is that they might not actually care about "revenue maximization" in the way a hotel or airline does - which is where this could all break down.

hit the nail on the head nlh. finding that equilibrium price is something we are constantly analyzing data to refine. we need to be careful not to have the upgrade cost so cheap that it cannibalizes ticket sales but also need to make it cheap enough that it makes sense. currently we take into account your original seat value plus time-based price decay. it's up to a venue what percentage discounts they want to apply across their inventory.

There seem to be a couple of these services popping up. This one (http://www.findexp.com/) services the Braves games at Turner Field in Atlanta. I can't really see more than one of these businesses taking off and I would think Ticketmaster would get involved if it proves lucrative (either by integrating it into their own app or acquiring one of these companies).

I'm sure being acquired by Ticketmaster is an exit all of these guys dream about.

For sure, their entire "service" depends on APIs from ticketing services being open and accessible.

The code change needed to make this work (auctioning / dynamic pricing / after event start upgrading of ticket) would require the ticket provider to enable this, they might as well not even bother buying a startup if they have to add all this to their own system.

So far we have had a positive response from the various ticketing services in regards to partnering. We are currently deeply integrated with Ticketmaster's Archtics ticketing system and are working on completing the same for Tickets.com.

the fee may actually be lower than the difference in ticket price

Isn't the main point of getting a cheap ticket and then moving to a more expensive one to not pay the price of an expensive ticket?

It may not always be about getting a better view, at times you may just want to escape a bad seating situation or impress a date/client/etc

This model works pretty well if you have plenty of empty seats, this could be a problem for fans who come a little bit late to the game. How do you handle fans that come late to a game?

Last year, I went to a baseball game a few innings late (maybe 2nd inning), how do you determine the time at which point to sell the seat? I would be upset if I paid $64+ bucks per ticket to have my seats sold based on getting to the stadium a little late.

The article didn't mention reselling seats that had already been paid for. Some venues always have unsold seats. (This may sound odd to those of us in places like Boston, where the Red Sox like to brag about selling out Fenway for NNN days straight.)

Correct. We don't just grab seats that are empty and sell them. We currently offer only the venues unsold seat inventory. In the future we plan to allow fans and other third parties to upload their inventory into our system as well.

Wow, it's nice to see that these guys are still going. They posted here a while ago, about not getting into Y Combinator, but that clearly didn't stop them.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2507662

I think it's an interesting read, and it puts things in perspective.

Thanks lgray! Those were definitely the early days of pogoseat and I don't think we had quite fleshed everything out well enough at the time.

Makes me think of the not-so-fun idea that stadiums would need to prevent "seat pirates." Ushers get an app that indicates if there is a butt in a seat for a ticket that was never used. They just need a sensor on the seat to indicate the status.

Much easier to enforce when you don't have to ask people to see their tickets. Everyone hates that.

This made me think that thought as well. Judging by the number of ushers usually at events like this, in practice they probably wouldn't even need sensors on the seats. The ushers probably know the system better than anyone, and given a list of seats that should be empty, I'd bet that it would not take them very long at all to check if someone was sitting there.

You have ushers at certain gates with scanners, only people with tickets that are allowed in that section. You can allow multiple gates nearby, but most stadiums are setup that there's really only one/two entrances to your section. You can't really seat-pirate beyond at most a few dozen rows.

RFID tags on tickets could accomplish this and have been being tested for a while now but haven't got much adoption yet unfortunately. Hopefully more soon. http://www.theregister.co.uk/2005/04/04/world_cup_rfid/

Reply on news.ycombinator.com