I don't know what your exact circumstances are but here is how I went from there to working for Google.
1. I got exposure. I hung out online with open source developers and participated. I did stuff in perl and blogged about it.
2. I did whatever I needed to to survive and support my family while doing the above. For awhile I worked as temp manual labor for Labor Ready. It was first come first served but if you did a good job companies would request you and you would have a job any time you stepped in the door.
3. I eventually managed to get contract work and continued to hone my skills and ability as a coder.
4. Finally I got noticed and was recruited by a company in chicago that later got bought by Google. I survived the transition and have been working at Google ever since.
You're path might not be exactly the same as mine but there are two key parts of my experience that you can learn from. Fisrt OpenSource gives you Exposure and Skill building that you can leverage. Second that menial jobs are a sometimes a necessary stepping stone but that they can be temporary.
Good Luck and don't give up.
What is you blog BTW? It's not listed on your profile or twitter.
1. Hanging out in tech channels on IRC
2. Teaching myself to program C with the GNU toolchain
3. Getting a 2nd job doing 1st level remote tech support (my first tech job) in addition to a full time job driving a forklift to save money for books/computer equipment while I lived with family/friends and slept on couches.
4. Joining open source programming projects and reading tons of other people's code.
5. Going to a programming job interview and beating all the other more experienced and formally educated candidates by walking into the interview with a working demo I wrote in the weeks before of what they wanted to hire a programmer to build running on my laptop.
6. Realizing a lot of programming was going to be outsourced and teaching myself sysadmin work so I could pivot.
7. Working as a sales engineer for an IBM BP to get corporate formal sysadmin "education" (certifications).
8. Applying for an MIT sysadmin job based on my IBM certifications. And, getting the job because I was better educated than the other applicants.
Obviously, a lot of that took years and there were other jobs (construction, concrete, moving furniture, factory work, etc) and stuff in between and countless set backs. That included tons of people that wouldn't even talk to me because I was a drop out. I did eventually get a GED and an AA degree from a community college (night school). But, the points listed really were the important events.
You need to treat your career like a start-up or any big goal. Decide what you want your life to be like and think of every possible way to get to that point. Then go. Be aggressive and relentless in getting there. There's going to be tons of failures and setbacks. Don't look at them as something that stops you or traps you. Look at them as pivots, as steps in the iteration that will get you where you want to be.
I wanted to be a part of MIT since I was a kid (because that's where the GNU software that gave me a chance came from). Here I am. There are plenty of people here that followed an ideal path to get to their current place in life (best wealthy families, best private schools, scholarships, mentoring programs, best research groups, etc). But, there are also plenty of people like me that can look back on the same kind of crazy path of "anything and everything necessary".
Like zaphar said, don't give up. Be dedicated, aggressive, and relentless in discovering the path to what you want to accomplish. That's the most important thing.
There 18k+ open source repos on github for c#: https://github.com/search?l=C%23&q=c&type=Repositori...
There are 44k+ open source repos on github for java: https://github.com/search?l=Java&q=c&type=Repositori...
I'm not even gonna bother for Asp.Net.
Now, for some real advice. 'Open Source' and microsoft don't exactly go together like peanut butter and jelly. Yes, there are some open source projects for the MS ecosystem but it's just not in the culture.
If you don't want to transfer your current skills to the Linux world, you should find a large, open source c# project and just run with it.
Good luck.
It appears that the op may have had a stroke of good luck by picking the perfect OS projects. It would be a bummer to extend yourself in an area that nobody cares about if the whole purpose were to get noticed.
If using Open Source as a self-promotion tool, it's important to choose wisely.
I want to hear about the decision process behind how or why Zaphar chose the open source project he did, and how others here choose their open source projects?
Just a little advice, so that I too (and others reading), can (wisely) choose our first open source project to contribute to.
There are lots of opportunities for addons/etc, and it's reasonably extensible. Could be a great first project.
There is no reason you can't move platforms or languages though. If you know C# or Asp.Net you know enough to get started in ruby, python, perl, or any other language. You don't have to limit yourself in this industry.
However, how could I make any particularly meaningful contribution in a language I am just learning? I feel that any issues or new features in an open source project probably require some fairly advanced knowledge, no?
Blog about what you are learning. Your contribution will be helping others learn from your experiences.
http://paulsantana.wordpress.com/2013/03/30/the-effects-of-a...
You're most valuable contribution will be time and willingness to tackle something.
I'm a developer today, and do ok by industry standards (not great, just okay, for now). However, I grew up in a less than trailer trash home, my dad was a janitor, my mom was nuts (I used to watch her talk to invisible people in a roach infested kitchen), my siblings were sucked into the poverty mindset. I was born with a serious medical condition. I've had some other crap go down that I'll barely tell my close friends, let alone an Internet of strangers, but trust me when I said I've had to rebuild areas of my life more than once. So what. I won't tell I have it all figured out, but I will tell you I will not be defeated. And I have little sympathy for those who tell me the horrible hand they've been dealt.
I realize that we live in a world where only the kids of the rich get to succeed, and the only way to start up your own business is to join an incubator. If you believe that, then you will be taken advantage of. Either push to be successful, or be the kind of person that the successful use to get there. They're more than happy to take your money and your spirit.
Doing that in a year or even six months is plausible, depending on how lucky his circumstances are, but three months strikes me as a bit of a stretch. At $10/hr * 40 hr/week * 12 week = $4800, ignoring rent, food, incidentals, and taxes.
If that were to become an obstacle, one solution may be to get a second job.
And yet the OP writes that he's having trouble getting even one of these jobs. It may be hard to believe, but some small towns have a vast, vast excess of people wanting these jobs.
I could also suggest he goes off to western north dakota to work in the oil field, but I don't know if that's such a great idea. I have some friends that have done that. It sounds horrible, and they look like they are about 15 years older than they actually are. Plus you need the money to get there, and need a car, all of which is probably $5K+ anyway.
How in the world could anyone save $5,000 in a summer when they're not even pulling in that amount?
EDIT: Even working 80 per week only brings in $7,680. Factor in bills and you're still not hitting 5k, guy.
Edit: What bills does he have? Food is free, because you work in food service. Rent in a place like Yakima is < $400/m. Summer starts in May. Also, after 40 hours a week you get overtime.
I've never heard of a food server job that hired fulltime workers or allowed those reaching 40 hours to go beyond that.
By moving to a lower cost area than Australia you still get a little of the "awesome, I'm traveling!" thing with low enough costs that you can try to do work that is relevant to your ultimate goal of getting a career in technology.
Stay in the U.S. and try to keep in touch with the comunity.
Also, if he finds Yakima "hell", being very close to tech centers, how can you expect him to adjust to somewhere that's REALLY in the middle of nowhere in tech terms - and, while you might think it's easy not to get sucked into local wages, he's unable to make US wages living in the US. In my country, a US McDonalds wage (8 dollars an hour) is much higher than most midlevel manager positions, and higher than standard developer wages.
If you're lucky and social, you can find your way onto a fishing boat; deckhands will usually get a percentage of the catch ($$$), and the work is easier.
I've been through Yakima a time or two before. A gritty wind blew continually -- it seemed like the kind of place where not even the dust wanted to settle. My sympathies to the poster.
I suggest to find some freelance programming jobs online. He could make some money writing articles about the stock market for SeekingAlpha.com.
In terms of education, I think he should do some courses with Coursera or one of the other free online institutions.
Also getting a rental unit without previous references from Australian landlords/agents is particularly difficult.
Be prepared to spend out a lot of $$$ getting set up.
Yes you'd be looking to pay that for a nice, new or renovated single bed apartment in the middle of the city or an expensive area. As hinted at though, as someone with $5-10k in the bank coming here to be a barista there's no way you'd be able to get a lease for one of them anyway.
Head even a 20 minute tram ride out from the city, however, and suddenly you can pay AU$1,400/mth for a 1 or 2 bedroom place in an older building. (Though you may struggle to get a lease anyway...)
If you were on a working holiday you would likely be better off finding a shared place with some like-minded souls, and end up somewhere around $1,000 for rent + all your bills and such to live somewhere pretty nice.
These figures sound good compared to US min. wages, but given the (substantially) increased cost of living I'm not sure this is good advice.
I do second the concern that Australia is expensive though. But there's no language barrier, work around and lots to see.
I spent 9 months in OZ, most of the time in northern Queensland working at a lime/lychee farm and some time at a banana farm. Since you are not in OZ yet, I doubt you will have any luck with gumtree/craigslist. Even if you are there it's pretty hard to get the job that way - the farmers really like to make sure you WANT to work and can physically do the work (at least I didn't manage to find work via gumtree).
The thing you have to do is go to the farms directly and talk to the owners/recruiters face-to-face. We bought a cheap 2500$ car between 3 people from Sydney and started driving north along the coast. There's quite a bit of work in the tropical areas during the summer months - bananas, mangoes, limes, lychees, avocados in late summer etc.
So my advice would be - get a cheap car, travel and work at the same time! (some farms hire only for the harvest period which for some produce isn't very long!)
Hope this helps a bit
What I did:
1) found the first job I could in the Seattle area (it was a call center job)
2) attended tech / startup community events (meetups, hack days, etc)
3) got lucky by meeting helpful folks in the tech community
4) worked on side projects on nights and weekends to grow my web development skills
5) found my first paying freelance dev work
6) found more paying freelance dev work
7) took a webdev job at a startup
From there a lot more has happened, but I've been in a webdev role ever since and continued learning new skills and taking opportunities to grow and contribute.
This is only one story and one perspective, but I hope you find a way out of the problems you're facing.
This really is the key to doing what you love. "Hanging around" leads to opportunities, whether it's through open source contributions to a project you like, pestering people at meetups, being a particularly keen and vocal user of a product you love.
It got so discouraging that Lee reportedly contemplated learning computer science so he could find a job during this time, but was scolded by his wife when she found out, telling him to keep his focus.
Wow, if only more spouses/boyfriends/girlfriends are so supportive...
"Programmer" however will solve all of your financial problems for the rest of your life. Invest as much effort as you can into building up your skills and tell everyone you can about them. Email every business in town with a list of your tech skills. Go on ODesk make a profile and list those skills. Respond to every gig posted on there. Check Craigslist, Elance, rentacoder whatever. Find a few gigs, build your skillset and once you are confident enough in what you do, work will just start to find you. As soon as you can afford it get the hell out of your small town and move to a larger market. Everything will change
When I was there, I made a flyer: "Computer Whiz-kid Seeks Work" .. like a news paper headline. Did some bullet points:
* Website design/fixing * Desktop Publishing * Data entry * Virus Removal * Computer Speedup
then some blurb .. I'm 22 and really good with computers. Give me a call if I can help you out with anything.
I distributed 100 fliers in a trading estate and a shopping mall, and got 3 job offers. One turned sour and the guy tried to sue me, one was a one off, and the last one got me a job converting .eps and .ai files for a sign writing plotter machine.
This company had associations with gangs and a drug using boss, who sometimes slapped me on the back of the head and called me a fing idot. However that job set me up for my next job and following career.
At that time, I was 13k in debt, and had no degrees. To get off the street, I bought a car for $150 to live in. The Methodist city mission was very helpful to me, giving me free, or $2 meals once a day. Also the Hari Krishna restaurant had good cheap food.
From the car, I moved in to a friend's part-under-the-house where the supports and dirt is, and lived rent free in exchange for doing chores.
That's when I managed to get that job controlling a sign writing plotter. Also I had to go through 6 months of being sued and had a bit of a breakdown, but it's all good now.
At that time I was 20/21. Now I am 38.
I hope it works out. Just keep sowing seeds, and soon enough some will start to sprout. I think the best place to get work and help is the larger cities.
(Speaking of which, we should probably organize HN meet ups more often)
I live in San Francisco and love it, but the cost of living here isn't exactly low and unless you have a job lined up or are already freelancing, it's going to be tough.
Instead consider other towns. Others have already mentioned Seattle, but I'd also consider Austin, specially because you mentioned both tech AND audio engineering. Austin is the live music capital of the world for a reason, and it has a great tech scene to boot (not to mention a really low cost of living... I say all of this being born and raised in Austin).
If you'd like some contacts in Austin (or more advice) I know of a few tech startups hiring, freelancers who could help you find good first gigs, and have a ton of friends and even family in the music industry in the city. Shoot me an email and I'll see what I can do: cullen@sponsorfied.com
Step one is getting yourself happy. Punt the toxic people in your life, focus on friendships, exercise, and mental health (it sounds like you're depressed), and save up a few nickels. There'll be time enough for financial ambition down the road.
If you're studying computer science or a related field, your ROI is going to be just fine at a state university.
Second, transfer to somewhere that will take your GPA and translate it directly into scholarships to pay for the rest of your education. Transfer that into a masters.
The US college is made for poor people to aspire and start again. Don't take out Stafford loans until you're working on a bachelor's degree.
(Source: 23, no life, homeless, no money, no car. 3.93 in community college, transferred to university that covered 75% in scholarships and 25% was Pell/Stafford. Now 27, still degreeless, but by choice. Finally, landed a decent job.)
If college is not an option due to existing loans, and this is a complete shame, craigslist jobs can actually land you freelance work. If college is an option, ie: no existing loans, shoot me an email.
1) See your local (you might have to travel a bit) recruiting station and ask to start the process in joining. I recommend the Navy of all branches, because I've worked with people of all the other branches and the Navy gives you the most potential to succeed long-term -- they are the only ones that promote the idea of cross-training, will burn away your outer weakness by some extremely crappy years of work ultimately making you a better person, and allow you more technological opportunities than any other branch.
2) Your recruiter will ask you about your past. This will include drug use, prior convictions, etc. Hopefully you don't have any felony charges, or you won't be able to join. There are waivers for various offenses, but some will preclude you from getting a security clearance job.
3) Take the ASVAB. It is an extremely simple test which tests very basic concepts that you should already have formed a mental model about if you're a halfway decent programmer. Example: This lamp post is 30 feet tall and casts a 50 foot shadow -- What is the hypotenuse? (That was a real question). There are also mechanical things (what type of wrench is this?) and basic english things. Score in the 80+ range (out of a possible 99...which I maxed out without breaking a sweat and I'm not a genius) and you can almost guarantee yourself a security clearance job.
4) Your recruiter will take you to a MEPS station. After they do a bunch of physical tests on you (normal physician tests like stripping you down and checking your parts), you will be taken to the most important leg of the journey -- the guy that will assign you your rating. If you did well on your ASVAB, this part will be a breeze, because he will mostly be interested in fitting you in to where you're comfortable. As a programmer, your goal is to get one of these ratings in order to get yourself into a job that can leverage your skills. Even though I was an arabic linguist, I was allowed to build unlimited amounts of tools in order to support missions, and that eventually just became my job. I was in the military and could come in to work whenever I wanted to and basically do whatever I wanted to. This is the exception more than the rule, however, but it's still a possibility if you have an excellent work ethic. The jobs that get you into said positions are: CTI, CTT, CTN, CTR, IT (secure). All of these will require a 6 year obligation (4 year + 2 year extension).
5) Boot camp. It was basically one of the more enjoyable periods of my life. Every day is mapped out on a bi-hourly basis about what you're going to be doing from the minute you get there to the minute you graduate. You can look on the schedule and see what you're going to be doing 2 hours and 4 weeks later, and that will be exactly what you'll be doing. The structure will allow you find out things about yourself and your capabilities which you might not be aware of. I had barely graduated high school (1.8 gpa) and had a couple months of work at subway, but the experience awakened a great motivation to succeed in me, and it just might do the same for you too.
6) A-School. Depending on the rating (job) you chose, this will be different. For the non-CTI jobs, you'll be going to lovely (sarcasm) Pensacola, FL. The experience is great, and it's a good stepping stone to re-introduce you back into the world after having everything taken away from you in boot camp. If you chose CTI then you'll be going to the Defense Language Institute (DLI). It's basically college, except you're paid to go. Would recommend.
7) C-School -- most likely still in Pensacola if you're a non-CTI, and if you're a CTI it will just be at your final duty station. This will be where you learn more advanced things, and will be influenced by your scores on tests in A school. The great part about this is that there's no homework since everything is classified, which is why I was able to do really well here. Only knowledge and practical ability matters (which is the common theme that you'll find in most of the Navy).
8) Final duty station. This can be many places around the world, but if you specifically want to program then you want to be stationed at an NSA facility. The NSA is the only government agency that really promotes people to think outside the box -- trust me, I've worked at all of the others. I never programmed anything for real until I went there, and there was a program we used where you had to add the number 9 to a calculation before entering it in. I asked "shouldn't the computer just do that?" and no matter how many trouble tickets we submitted, no one would resolve it. So, I asked the person who had created the program 20 years ago if I could modify the program to fix it -- he handed me the Perl cookbook and said go for it. That spawned an entire career. You'll find that people there, although odd, will be more open to change than anywhere else in the government.
Once you have 6 years in (which will be the minimum for a job like this), you'll be 28/29 with a lot of skills, experience, and a security clearance. You'll have met people working at various contracting companies that will hire you, or you can apply at various government agencies that will easily snatch you up.
About me: I started out as an EW (electronic warfare technician) tech which was 2 years of electronics schooling. I served on a ship for 2 years and cross-rated to CTI to learn arabic. After finishing 9 years total in the Navy, I collected a total of 62,000 dollars in bonus money. I left the Navy with no debt, a car, a lot of money in the bank, a 92k offer and a 102k offer and three full months of collecting my Navy paycheck after leaving (terminal pay). I took the higher job offer and worked that for a year, conceiving of, writing the requirements for, and building (by myself) a computer program that saved the government an estimated 3 million dollars (along with writing a bunch of piddly scripts and API's that have saved a few million more and continue to be used). I'm 29 now and have saved up enough money that I dont have to work for 2 years and can focus on bootstrapping my own startup. The Navy and my work ethic (and ability to save money) gave me that, and it can give it to you too.
If you'd like more information, message me and I'd be glad to help.
"I never had to lie to anyone about joining the military. The secret is that no one walks into my office if everything is going right in their life. I just find what that problem is, and figure out how the military can solve it."
Recruiters can't effectively tell you lies if you know everything you need to know. In my case, my father had been a sonar tech and had told me what to expect like what I posted up there -- I already knew what I was getting into when I walked into that office. Don't go to a recruiter (and potentially waste their time) if you haven't done the due diligence to research a very life-changing decision.
I really hope those three guys were in the minority, but it left a bad taste in my mouth.
That being said, certain common diagnoses will preclude you from entering service: ADD/ADHD, bi-polar disorder, bad knees, fibromyalgia, among other things. Obesity is kind of a no-brainer thing -- there's a maximum body fat percentage and height/weight ratio.
If it's in your health record right now, then it should definitely be declared, in my opinion. You'd only be doing yourself a disservice later on by not doing so.
"When they ask you if you want to be a Nuc, say no." -- he could have got a lot of good will at his recruiting office if I chose to be a nuclear tech, but he was absolutely right in telling me this. They never came to ask me, because I had never taken algebra in high school.
"If you have a choice between an east coast and west coast ship, choose west coast." -- Absolutely agree with this. West coast is a much more relaxed attitude compared to east coast, unless you're forward deployed.
"In bootcamp, get the yeoman job." -- I listened to him and was able to get the division yeoman job. This allowed me to travel around base by myself -- something you'd appreciate if you've been through the bootcamp experience. It also led to me getting a meritorious promotion (only 2 or so recruits per division of like 30-50 got this), and getting promoted earlier decreases the amount of time required for you to advance to the next rank.
"Run a lot before you go to bootcamp". Ironically, he was a very slow runner, but I took his advice and worked out nearly daily for the two months before I left. At the time, in order to pass the run test and graduate from bootcamp you were required to run 1.5 miles in 12:15, which would have been nigh impossible for me had I not practiced a bunch beforehand. I eventually got it down to 10:25 in bootcamp, which is a decently admirable run time. Women get approx. an extra minute longer.
That and being stuck in there for X years. Sounds like you lucked out with your military career but it seems like more the exception than the rule?
I would add, though, that it doesn't necessarily go the way the recruiter describes. Yeah, if you take the tests and sign the six years, it will likely go that way, but it is the military, they do own you, and if they want to they can have you do anything because they said so. And you don't get to quit.
The military was a positive experience for me, and it is for many people. But I stand by my rant.
It actually free and you only have to pay them once you get a job after graduating from their program. Plus the job will be in San Francisco area and will pay well like about 80K which will help you get out of your current situation and then you can decide what to do with your life after that.
Best of luck to you.
The above works best in conjunction with the other advice here: get into the open source software world. Hang out on IRC while you're working. Read the documentation. Blog what you're learning. Make the most of free resources. Go to meetups related to technologies you're learning if you can.
If you're interested in moving an hour and a half south, they have &yet, which is a strong agency but was just starting when I moved. I went through damn near every decent web company in the area before finally moving out to Portland because of how unhappy I was there and how uninspired I was by the quality of the work being put out by the area.
Eastern Washington - Spokane possibly excluded - is a barren wasteland for honest web/tech work outside of freelancing and working out at Hanford, and I'm not sure Yakima has anything worth investing time in either. The cost of living in the TC can be pretty cheap if you're able to find a gig there, but public transit sucks. If you want to apply to some dev jobs in Portland (which would probably be more difficult than finding some in the TC) and get an interview or two out here, you're welcome to stay with us. I have some friends your age that are also into audio production and we have jam sessions with our gear sometimes at our place. Would love to have you if you get any leads.
I am in touch with a few developers still living in the Tri-Cities, too, if you'd like me to reach out to them as well.
You're already living in the United States, a dream for many.
There's probably an entry-level job in one of those chains or retail stores you can get which will allow you to study on the side - my brother moved from Uruguay to Canada at about your age, worked at KFC while studying and is now an extremely sucessful manager in the advertising business.
As zaphar says, if you're tech-savyy, you don't need the degree - getting exposure will do the trick.
Yakima looks relatively close to Seattle, which is a hot spot for tech, and I've heard Portland also has a good tech community. Try to go to events there and socialize. After you get better known, you might get some freelance work or maybe you can get a position and move there.
I don't know about rent in Yakima, but maybe you can share an apartment with someone interesting/who shares your interests, or at the very least is motivated.
I'd try to find some kind of counseling or support group. If you can't find any in Yakima, there are several in Seattle:
http://www.freecounselinghelp.com/category/counseling/counse...
A non-refundable round trip bus ticket from Yakima to Seattle is about U$ 30 according to Google, so you might be better off paying for some local counseling.
Twenty three and so tired of life
Such a shame to throw it all away
The images grow darker still
Could I have been anyone other than me?
You might be feeling down right now, but it is quite likely to be temporary. The future holds promise for you. Whether it is concentrated effort or serendipity or rationalization, you will likely be in a better place before you know it.You sound pretty depressed - remember the best functional description of depression is an inability to create detailed mental images of the future - Your entire psyche is focussed on trying to solve all the things you've got going on (which is natural because want to fix this) but be careful about it distorting your perspective.
Slow down your thinking and try not to freak out - like others have said you are young and that gives you time to learn new skills. .
If things get bad or you just want to talk email the Samaritans in the UK - http://tinyurl.com/bfghx6q - it's all anonymous and they won't care or even know about the US connection unless you tell them (If anybody knows the US equivalent or one local to the area, post it below). There are literally hundreds of people out there that want and can help with these situation but you've got to seek them out - Western society is terrible dealing with mental health issues but once you fire up the bat signal decent people come running. Good luck
You might look for jobs on Craigslist. It sounds like right now you're looking for anyjob, for cash/rent. Be willing to do about anything, you're not choosing a career right now you're just taking money from people without stealing. Depending on who you work for, some of them might have interesting ideas or contacts.
If you can get to North Dakota you might work in the oil fields, but I hear it's hard to find a place to stay; boom times and all.
I don't know the producer business, I'm guessing there's much more opportunity programming. Don't know your experience. Pick a language, start making stupid little things and put them on github. The first stuff doesn't have to be impressive, doesn't have to be web whiz bang, just anything that gets you thinking in the language. If you get far enough along before you get an interview you can take the earlier ones down. If you're lucky enough for someone to consider you earlier, for the type of job you might be talking about, you can point to even your small silly projects and say "hey, this is what I've been doing to build my skills."
Whatever language you pick, learn the debugger, it will teach you more than the debugger.
Read something enjoyable, it's a cheap way to do something good for yourself and to get your mind off your troubles. Make it non-career oriented at least some of the time. You can get things at the library, or a used book store. Finding a good, old, funky used book store is a delight.
Your health matters. Exercise as well as you're able. Challenge yourself to eat as well as you can on the least amount of money. Beans and such go a long way for very cheap. These two things can be some of your reading. Learn as much as you can practically use about them.
Help someone.
Summer is rolling around so make sure to be there before all the southern guys come back up after leaving for the winter. I plan on looking for a oil field job soon. After years in college, grad school, working at a corp job doing ASICs/FPGAs paying less than 70k, I hear its pretty easy to make +100k in the oil fields. Just make sure you are "mobile". I won't be slack work but you will be able to bank enough money to go to school. I hear of plenty of college age kids working the summer in the fields and end up staying in the fields( not going back to college). If I where you, plan on working a year or two, saving up a "pile of money", and then working on some degree. Remember, you will be a old man in tech by the time you get your degree and what will reduce your chances for employment. Tech is a wicked mistress!
.... If not, look at Udacity and the other MOOCs.
Too many people what to live the Silicon Valley lifestyle. If you can get into a top 50 school and are backed with some family wealth, you to could do it. But if you think you are going to be the next 'zuck'... you are going to be in for a rude awaking. Remember that zuck was from a well to do family, super smart, and went to an ivy league school. Most Silicon Valley companies only want people like him. The rest of us do not get to play in the big game... Life is tough. Get use to it. You will be happier.
I say that, having joined the military after high school because I had no clue what to do with myself. And for me, at that time, it turned out well.
However, the US hasn't used its military for anything good or honorable since World War II, except possibly the first six to nine months of Afghanistan. If you join the military you'll likely have to kill someone for no worthy reason, or you'll have to order someone to do it. For fucking Wall Street, and so whoever's President at the time doesn't have to take Viagra.
Fuck. That. Shit.
Don't waste your soul.
(Apologies to any veterans or family.)
* ANY job, if you can pare down/get help with your living expenses, is a plus, especially now. Discipline yourself to save to go to the place where your best chances are. Leave no stone unturned.
* Get help! College environments have lots of services and opportunities for people your age - counselling, jobs lists, ride boards, tutoring opportunities. If you've gone to a college, go there. Don't be shy about spelling out your predicament. Someone may hear you who's been there.
* Avoid the drugs, make sure your personal appearance and demeanor is as good as you can make it. Don't give them any excuses to overlook what you know how to do. Doesn't matter whether you score high on their tests if they don't like your look. "Really tech savvy" is NOT easy to find these days, if by that you mean MAD SKILLS. Sell that hard. If you mean "learn fast and will study hard", sell that. And mean it.
P.S: I was on pills until recently, when my psychiatrist told me I can stop taking them to see if I still need them or not (they also make me very sick for a short while, roughly 20 to 60 minutes on average), and I am starting to fall into my old and bad habits, again. Just thought I'd add that if anyone's wondering about how I feel.
See, that's the thing. We live in a pill generation. An era of instant gratification and 3 minute microwave meals. The pill is symbolic of our mass illusion that nothing requires effort anymore. Don't succumb to the lie. Take the time and do the work to take care of yourself
1) Get a job at a call center, this will suck but you can at least pay for rent off of this.
2) Make flyers and/or find a place that will hire you on to clean Bonsai Buddy off of grandmas computer. If the job pans out enough you can quit the call center.
3) Save up all the money you can.
4) Move to Southern California or anywhere with a growing tech scene. Rent an apartment / room in a cheap part of town (Oakland, parts of LA) that you can use public transit initially.
5) If necessary repeat steps 1 or 2 until you can get a job doing something more. In this time attend meetups to meet other people in the industry you want to be in.
Connect with people who have similar interests than you. They're out there either online or otherwise but find a group of like minded individuals - preferably find a group that gets you to connect face to face. If you aren't comfortable hanging out with them because you keep kicking yourself about your shortcomings, you need to get over that. But once you find a group just show up. 80% is just showing up.
Don't over-think. Find something that's interesting to you, and instead of thinking "wow I don't know if this will pan out" ask yourself "do I enjoy this?" If the answer is yes, do it. Don't worry too much if in three months from now you have a better idea and your current idea doesn't seem so interesting anymore. You're building up experience.
Be social, go someplace that's interesting. Talk to people, even if you're no good at it, you'll build up social skills. If people don't want to talk back, go find someone else that's interesting that's more receptive. Eventually you'll make friends and build up your social skills.
Build a support network from friends and family that you know love you and care for you. They are there even if it's a small group of people. Tell them what you're trying to do and talk to them. They may not have good advice but they'll listen and be supportive.
There's a lot of other good advice here, but these are just some of the things that I tell my brother who is almost twenty.
Here are three you might consider: working on a fishing boat / working on a oil rig / joining the US Armed Forces.
The first two of those are very good money with a bit of risk with not a particularly long time commitment. After you are out of your financial hole you can transition to doing something else. The Armed Forces is not a bad option if you are looking for something that could be a longer term option for you and potentially include training in skills you are interested in.
Also, in general, getting jobs is first and foremost about confidence. I suspect you don't have a lot, so going out there and doing something where you can build confidence (my suggestion not knowing you is through a body focused manual labor activity, but that may not be the best), and then use that confidence to build skills, and then go out and get a job that makes use of those skills. That's a general strategy that can carry you for your whole life, the trick is to avoid getting stuck in a depressive cycle (which seems like where you are now).
Anyways, good luck mate, wish you the best!
I believe the tech workers should be moving towards private unions to get standard wages and mentor programs. We need to move away from this dog eat dog individualistic suppository programmer complex.
Most tech managers are just trying to suck the life out you to further promote their career with zero consideration for you well being.
Of course you can go work for a Google or another large corporate outfit. Remember that for every job we hold we are cutting an unknown number of American jobs.
Food for thought, there is a special place in hell for the greedy and traitorous. Personally I feel as a part of the high tech sector we are heading in that direction. No one stands up for worker rights in high tech.
tl;dr. Don't overstress. Take problems one at a time. and grimace when some of them asplode anyway.
ps. you're only 22. I know folks in their 40's who still struggle! (but somehow they manage to be happy every day. <scratches head>) . I think you'll figure it out. Either the road to traditional western success... or maybe you'll find your own path. :-)
pps: {{hug}}
In life it is important to have the right perspective as this shapes your attitude and attitude is everything.
I am 32 now but in around 2001 I was about your age and I had an associate degree(CS), but the job situation sucked. The unemployment rate back then was much lower than it is today....perspective.
I think you need to consider taking any job until you can get on your feet. When I was 22 I was working at a call center taking 50+ abusive phone calls everyday, as I stated above I already had an associate degree...so again adjust your attitude.
Lastly, you may have hung around HN long enough to get the vibe that college isn't necessary, nothing could be farther from the truth.
Peter Thiel may tell kids already on their way to Harvard, Stanford et al to drop out and start a company, that advice is the absolute worse advice for 99.9% of kids....again perspective shapes attitude and attitude determines outcome... seriously figure out a way to enroll in college and get a degree....
hope this helps.
founder @APPYnotebook (www.appynotebook.com)
Offer to help people get their computers set up, or fixed up. Be scrupulously honest, do not lie and do not exaggerate and do not try to be anything except helpful. That will get you money to eat and buy the basics. You may still be homeless but you will start connecting with the community in a helpful way.
Yakima does have some electronics stores (BestBuy and Radio Shack) and if I were in your spot I would look to see if either of them needed technical help. Its not that hard to learn how to pull apart, clean, and re-assemble a desktop PC.
Don't give up, and each morning think of at least two things you can be thankful for and hold onto them all day. Be open to opportunities that may present themselves.
Those are my credentials, now here's my advice: build a portfolio. And I don't mean a portfolio site or physical portfolio per se (though that would be best), I mean a body of work you've done that you can show off. All a degree really is is a piece of paper that says "I know how to do all this stuff. Contact these people and they'll vouch for me." Sure, some companies simply won't hire people without a degree, but you don't want to work for them anyway. Remember, you're smart, you're technically savvy, you're young, you're ambitious. Companies want YOU. Now, all you have to do is PROVE to companies that you can do the job. That's what a portfolio is for - it's actual, physical (or virtual) examples of your work; it's evidence that you know what you're doing. Make a blog and write some compelling articles. The blog, design, and articles are all examples of what you can do. Are you a designer? Make some icons, logos for companies that don't exist, or redesign an existing popular website just because you can do better or can offer a fresh outlook on their design (here's a guy that did this to Facebook: http://www.behance.net/gallery/Facebook-New-Look-Concept/650...). Are you a developer? Find an interesting open source project (or 5), learn it, and start fixing bugs and adding features right away. Maybe even start your own open source project (you have a GitHub account, right?!). Remember, your portfolio doesn't have to contain work you've been paid for; it can be filled with things you did on your own simply because you love what you do. My portfolio is what got me hired when I first started out (it also pays to be confident and have some good interviewing/interpersonal skills; confidence is really all about perspective, though, and is, if you lack it, something you can achieve through things like reframing: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_reframing, http://changingminds.org/techniques/general/reframing.htm).
A few more things:
1. Companies aren't charities (even many charities aren't charities when it comes to hiring). They aren't there to hand out jobs to people just because those people need a job. They hire people because they have a void and believe that person can fill it. It is necessarily a mutually beneficial arrangement. You have to show companies that you are the person that can fill whatever voids they have.
2. If you don't have a resume, make one! Then put it online, on every site you can think of (LinkedIn, careerbuilder.com, monster.com, etc). If you contact me (my email is on my HN profile) I'll help you with your resume!
3. Many companies put in job descriptions that they require a 2 or 4 year degree. Sometimes this isn't really the case and, if you can demonstrate that you are the right person for the job, they will hire you anyway. This is what happened to me for my first job (it was a Fortune 500 company, so even they'll hire people without degrees sometimes!). So respond to every job description that looks interesting to you!
4. When you get an interview, and I know you will, do some research on the company before hand. Look at their website, check out what their doing, learn about their business domain, etc. If you're a web designer and/or web developer, think about ways you can improve their website and let them know you "had some ideas" while you were checking it out (don't make it seem like you didn't like their site, even if you didn't; be diplomatic about it).
5. I know I said I have to beat recruiters off with a stick; I don't actually beat them. Pro-tip #5: Don't burn bridges with recruiters. I have turned down more recruiters than I can count while at my current job because I'm not looking for work, but I always a) respond to them quickly, b) thank them for taking the time to contact me, c) thank them for considering me for whatever jobs they have available, d) let them know why I'm not available, and e) let them know that I'll keep an eye out for them if someone I know that fits one of their job descriptions is looking for work (and I mean it; I have forwarded several friends to recruiters). Sometimes I'll even talk to recruiters on the phone so they can get to know me (I always tell them up front that I'm not looking for work, but sometimes they want to talk anyway). Because of this, I have a huge list of people I can contact that might be able to help me should I find myself out of work.
I'm sure other people will have other perspectives and experiences. I hope this or something else on this page helps you!
EDIT: Also, when you're not spending time working on your resume, contacting companies and recruiters, committing to open source projects, redesigning popular websites, making logos for non-existent companies, or otherwise beefing up your portfolio, spend time making yourself better (for free!): https://www.coursera.org/, https://www.edx.org/, http://ocw.mit.edu/, https://www.canvas.net/, https://www.udacity.com/, http://webcast.berkeley.edu/, http://www.academicearth.org/, http://ocw.tufts.edu/CourseList, http://www.open.edu/openlearn/tags, http://www.cs.washington.edu/education/courses/, http://ocw.nd.edu/, http://law.duke.edu/webcast/, http://oyc.yale.edu/. There isn't much room for anything else if you're serious about this.
EDIT 2: Added udacity (thanks philwebster!)
I was in a similar situation just a week and a half ago - almost 25, took 6 years for a 4 year degree(something you can't do in India, looks really really bad on the resume) and had no experience other than a failed stint as a freelance web developer and a useless 3.5 month stint at a company where I did nothing.
So, till last Sunday, I had pretty much 0 value in the job market. I had a Github account and some small projects on it, but nothing more than decent and I kept thinking I'll apply for this awesome position when I finish that amazing project. And I would've kept doing that for a long long time, but there was a thing came up where I had to travel to another city and I figured since I was going there, might as well apply to a few positions in companies based there. So early Sunday morning(2am ish) I send out a bunch of applications. By Wednesday I had a new job with payed more than what most of the guys I went to college with earn(in some cases it might be as much as 2x), had a standing job offer from another place for when I leave the job I hadn't even started yet, one co-founder pushing me to come over for an interview and offered to better what ever I'd make at the other place, plus 3 other inquiries.
And all that with a few half decent projects on github and a passionate(I think so) about me thing on the resume.
Granted that there are a lot more better programmers available in the US than there are here in India(my boss was shocked by the level of most coders he interviewed), but still it seems doable - getting a job solely on coding chops.
I'm not saying that if you start applying you'll get a job the next day or even the next week or the next month. I'll be the first one to admit that I got really lucky with the timing(a lot of start ups had put up wanted posts at that time) and with the apparent lack to good programmers who want to work at start ups in India. But unless you apply, you don't find out whether or not you could've got that position you liked.
So code some stuff up, put it online and start applying.
So code some stuff up, put it online and start applying."
Nicely said!
You are getting great advice. Pick one thing and do it for 10 minutes.
* Introduction to Digital Sound Design (https://www.coursera.org/course/digitalsounddesign)
* Introduction to Programming for Digital Artists (https://www.coursera.org/course/chuck101) (yep, this is for music)
Check out appacademy.io. They are a 10 week programming bootcamp learning ruby, rails, JavaScript and HTML5. Because you already have programming experience, you are above the rest and may have a better chance getting in. It's completely free to attend and you only have to pay if you get a job after the program.
It's run by a group of hackers, and you can email Ned Ruggeri and apply once you check out the site. They have classes in San Francisco and NYC.
I hope everything works out for you man. Not to sound too cliche, but what I have found is it truly is the darkest before the dawn. I attended college (I'm 21), got tired of it, started a couple businesses but I wanted to do more. I applied to Dev Bootcamp and got in, and I will be there in April. Keep your head up and never stop hustling to get what YOU want.
Best of luck.
You don't need money to get a degree. That's the point of student loans. Are you in-state in Washington? If you can take the SAT's you should be able to get into a decent, cheap state school. You can get a fee waiver for that, btw.
You list your tangible skills here and ask for work - anywhere but Yakima. I hear that there are some great startups in Chicago, Detroit, etc - much lower cost of living than CA or NY. BTW where did you move from? Is it an option to return there??
I've heard Chattanooga is an option for tech jobs, and Tennessee is supposed to be pretty. Cost of living should be relatively low, if you can get there. Once you get there, or anywhere, do what you would do anywhere: find anyjob and work on moving up from there.
Consider local government for work.
I moved into one of those apodment places once I got here during the summer. It's a dorm style place that comes w/ furniture,internet,electricity,heat,and water for like $700.
I then emailed a bunch of companies in the area and landed a junior dev job. The pay is low but I am learning a lot.
Alternatively they have a machine shop program which could exploit your programming skills.
I only mention it because young people often forget that there is a lot of need for people in these jobs which currently are dominated by older men preparing to retire.
Just look at all the comments and suggestions all these people have posted. If you need help, just ask for it. But you will need to work on changing things that you can and they may be hard. Life can get you down. Even in the darkness of days, there are always bright sunny days ahead of you!
Serenity Prayer: God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and wisdom to know the difference.
Contrary to what many commenters have indicated, don't get a job if you can avoid it. If you can get by without a job, put every last waking moment into your passion.
1) If you want to be a programmer, build something innovative and cool and tell the world about it. If nobody cares, try something else. Build a portfolio of things you've done that compensates for not having a degree.
2) Network. Meet people, talk to people and get involved. Help others and others will help on your projects. Network locally as well as with others in areas you want to live.
If you pour everything into your passion, you'll get better at what you do and everything will fall into place.
Or: do some overseas mission stuff. I don't mean church stuff, where you pay to go, and are in an isolated bubble of service. No, I mean give up your life, go somewhere for a year or two. You can live on dollars a day (and still live better than the natives), and I think it will greatly benefit your worldview.
Join the military. Regardless of the politics of it, I think most will agree it's an opportunity to learn, grow, and get away.
You might try thinking out -- and writing down -- specifically what sort of circumstances you think would help you to feel "ok." An apartment? A steady, stable job? A car? A group of reliable friends? You don't need a perfect answer, just try to flesh out some basic details.
Once you know where you want to be in life, you can start taking determined action to change your current circumstances. Where do you want to be ten years from today? Five years? Try to answer those questions, then work back to today, determining the requirements at each step.
So, if you have as your goal getting a job at $50k per year working as a web developer at a small to medium sized company, starting x years from today, then your requirements might be:
Living in a city with sufficient job opportunities in the IT industry; specific programming skills; interpersonal skills for working in an office environment; personal and professional references; a resume; some relevant work experience; basic interviewing skills; a permanent address; reliable transportation; food in your stomach; some reasonable clothes; and a few friends and a healthy way to relax during your downtime.
Take each of those criteria, compare to where you are now, figure out specifically what you can do to improve your circumstances, and take action!
Having it all written out can work wonders for your motivation and ability to stay on track. You can also include some goalposts in your plan with specific timeframes so that you can periodically remind yourself that you're making progress -- that can really help you make it through when things get difficult, which they sometimes will.
It sounds like right now you need to get traction and put some money in your pocket, and some more in the bank. That means you'll want to get your expenses down as low as possible and save as much of your income as you can. You may have to work some unpleasant jobs to get yourself started, but remember that they're not permanent, and stay focused on your goals.
I hope this was of some use for you. Good luck!
Seriously you're less then 40 miles away from tons of people going through the same thing trying to get themselves together. Even if you end up doing something completely different, it's a place to start and it's just a hitchhike with a bunch of people you'll probably want to meet anyways away.
I also think getting a job - any job, McDonalds, Walmart, whatever - is an important (even if it's miserable) step, because it's SO MUCH EASIER to get a job when you already have one. Even if it takes several bounces up the ladder, it's very difficult to go from being unemployed to being employed in a good job in the field you're interested in. I've got no degree and no have an amazing job working as a developer for one of the most difficult-to-get-hired-at places in tech. I worked (I will omit the time from 17 years old to 27 years old, because I honestly can't remember all of the jobs I had in that period, but the last year or so I was unemployed) for an office furniture dealership (through a temp agency at first), then got a tech-support job for a small software company, worked hard enough to get a little more responsibility and learned some networking/sysadmin-type stuff, learned some sql, hacked around with Python and Ruby, and got a chance to be a developer. Never looked back. I'm 30, for reference, and I've also been homeless and had to sleep on friends' couches, lived paycheck-to-paycheck or sold belongings on craigslist to pay the rent at times, etc. Hang in there. It's hard to hear, but once things work out and you "get there", you tend not to give a fuck about the path it took to get there.
See if you can get to a tech meetup, or just hang out in IRC, post on tech forums, etc. Get the best job you can, but get any job before no job. Sometimes temp agencies can be a really good way to start - I've worked for several. They're usually indoor, business-casual, 9 to 5 office jobs. Don't expect it to be interesting, of course, but some of these places will get you _a_ job right away as long as you're reasonably polite/presentable and can type fast, and it'll probably be a little bit better than the bottom-end of the retail/fast-food spectrum in terms of pay.
Like zaphar said: Good luck and don't give up.
ben@site5.com Thanks, Ben
PS, I'd be happy to tell you more about Australia as I'm here now on a 1 year visa. And just finished a 6 month trip through Argentina and South America if you are thinking seriously of something like that.
Go to any city you have a friend willing to take you in. Jump start from there.
Lastly, it will get better. Life can be hard sometimes, but you can always start over. I promise it will get better for you.
1) Spanish only 2) you need money for textbooks and such 3) really bad hours for those who need to work
Rent varies by country, but you'll find that an US equivalent is shockingly expensive - unless you think that you can live by without a fridge or other essentials (remember, in most of Latin America, rent only includes the four walls and a roof, forget about utilities, appliances, etc, unless you explicitly pay for those).
I've found that culture shock means that only people that are NOT in the situation this person is in are able to adapt to the local conditions.
My mother moved back from Canada to Uruguay, and she's shocked by the cultural differences (she lived abroad for 20 years). You won't believe how many things you take for granted that simply don't exist in a 3rd world country.
I'm personally a high school drop out and work as a developer in an up and coming startup. Prove that you're a good developer and you don't need a degree.
It's 2.99 on Kindle, but send me an email and I'll send you a free pdf copy. dan@enemieslist.net is my email.
It sucks, but it gets better.
Embrace this. You'll (ideally) never be here again.
Is there somewhere you've always wanted to live? Move there. I'm sure there's an airbnb for ridesharing to get there. If not, start building it.
Once you're there you need to find work. Working fast food? That's cash. That's not equity somewhere, that's immediate rent paying and food buying cash. You want this.
When you're not flipping burgers, try and find work that is at your technical level. Startups, firms, etc. You probably won't find any at the get go. That's fine. Put an hour a day into this search. The rest of it? Start fleshing out stuff on Github.
Don't necessarily take the first job that comes up; flipping burgers and waiting for the right job is better than a sucky job.
Final step, start living life.
Like I said, I've never been in the situation, but that's the advice I would give myself.
Good luck.
I was literally where you are now when I was 22. I moved to the big city, homeless, scraped together cash working retail to put myself through one of those seedy, "recording arts" programs. Then I took out some pretty big loans to start my record label and begin living the dream. Boy was I out of touch because it didn't take long for that dream to come crashing down. Facing reality was one of the hardest things I had to do.
First, obligatory advice that ironically won't make sense until you're older and have your own story to tell: you're young and you'll get through this and you'll get old and have your own story to tell. Don't sweat it too much.
It took me almost nine years to pay off all the debt I had accumulated during that hard time. It was horrible at first. However you can beat it if you put your mind to it.
My life started turning around when I was living in a tiny room in the basement of a large boarding house in the worst part of the city. Here's how I did it:
1. I created a cash flow spreadsheet and budget. I stuck to it. The nice thing about having the cash flow though was that I could see what my finances would look like in the future. This helped me to plan things and having that really put my mind at ease because I could visualize the light at the end of the tunnel. It would take me a while but I eventually added an entertainment expense.
2. I don't recommend this long-term but when things got thin I learned how to make decent food on the cheap: lots of rice, bulk dried beans, and as much fresh produce as I could afford. I'd make a tonne of stir-fry and eat that throughout the week. It's important to eat well so the first thing I tried to expand was my food budget... this doesn't include eating out.
3. Snowball those debt payments. Pay the minimum on everything except the most important one. Put everything you can after you're most basic needs are met and the minimums are all paid out. Once that one is paid off, keep going. Pick the next highest one and don't shirk and think you have more money to start going out or something. Just make the payments bigger on the next one... they snowball into one another. After you've knocked a couple of the big ones out then start giving yourself a small weekly budget to go out (and learn to make that small budget stretch... I liked going to bars with friends and we found all of the places that had $2 beer nights and went out on those nights).
3. The best thing that happened to me was finding a job through a friend at a local hosting company making websites. It wasn't anything glamorous but it was my first salaried job and I did everything I could to land it: I brushed up on HTML, CSS, Perl, PHP... I made a rather simple little blog script that I could show them before I went into that interview. I spent as much time as I could online and at the library doing research and taking notes. I think it helped because I got that job and I hadn't done any web programming for a few years at that point.
4. I didn't stop pushing myself. I got better at what I did for a living a little bit each day. I tried learning one new thing each week. And after a couple of years I started to get calls from recruiters and have moved up from there.
(It turns out I love CS and probably should have gone to university instead of trying to be a rock star, but you live and learn)
I'm not sure if any of this will work for you but if there's anything I hope you will take away from this comment it's knowing that there's still plenty of time to work your way out of your situation and get to where you want to be. Don't spend time reading about the over-achievers who've been handed the right opportunities at the right time... and don't listen to the claim that it was because of their drive, determination, and all that. Just use your hustle and keep at it. Most of all, smile once in a while and remember that it's just life. It happens to all of us.