Put the logo below the fold: Breaking design rules for profit | Hacker News Reader

Put the logo below the fold: Breaking design rules for profit

blog.studiofellow.com

25 pointshbien24 comments

Hmm, at the moment on http://cascade.io/, their company logo IS at the top (as well as bigger below the fold), it's just on the right instead of left, and not linked.

Which seems perfectly reasonable.... but it contradicts with the OP says, it's not actually only below the fold.

What am I missing?

Thanks for bringing this up. I'm the OP. Please note my response to a similar comment below: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5416724

You're right that the logo is not only below the fold. There is a dimmed version in the top right corner, but the point where I really introduce the app is below the fold. I admit that the title is slightly inaccurate because of that. It just made for a snappier headline.

The main point is to place the logo low on the visual hierarchy. The dimmed logo you are referring to is not very obvious. Visitors will read the headline before they see it.

Also note, everyone is noticing that occurrence of the logo right away because I explicitly point out the prominence/location of the logo in the post. If you were visiting the site without that context, you wouldn't notice the dimmed logo.

Then why is it there at all if you don't expect your users to notice it?

We pay no attention to "rules." Our logo has been in the footer for 4 years. Traffic is up and revenue has doubled every year to 7 figures. We don't A/B test, so I can't attribute our growth to this, but it is a nice little anecdote.

Edit: We have an old fashioned "Home" link at the top of the site.

You have your logo above the fold twice; it's at the top right of your navbar on every page, and again just below the navbar on the homepage. You're not really breaking any conventions aside from not including the site name in the top logo.

The logo (of the Cascade site) is clearly above the fold in the upper right corner.

"Do as I say, not as I do"

(I'm the author.) You're right that a dimmed logo shows there, but it's low on the visual hierarchy. So this still fits the goal I explain in the post: put what customers want to know first.

Well, I still see a logo above the fold, whether it's dimmed or not, it kinda invalidates your point.

That point seems pedantic to me. The author is talking about the logo as central element on the flow of the page. His point was to put communicating with your potential customers above shoving a brand down their throat.

EDIT: Although on second thoughts, there is an argument in there for a revision of the actual literal advice to align with the point.

Thanks. The point is to place the logo low on the visual heirarchy. 'Below the fold' is just a snappier (and also somewhat less accurate) way of stating that point.

It's also a landing page vs. a website. I can see why it would make a difference in this case, but it's not really general purpose advice.

Having a logo in the top left that links to the homepage is common enough that people expect it. A good example of something that's counterintuitive is the blog post itself; it's really not obvious without hunting for it that the text "fellow." on the top right goes home.

I tried to indicate your first point in the post:

> But for small startups like mine, ...

> Brand awareness doesn’t exist if your customers number in the hundreds.

I think it's clear that I'm talking about landing pages for a certain type and size of business, and not all websites in general.

Also, thanks for the suggestion about the blog theme. I hacked that together really quickly, and it could use some improvements.

Edit: formatting.

I don't think it really matters how many customers you have. Your goal isn't to build brand awareness at this point, it's to get the visitor to provide their email.

It's a great example of a landing page that clearly lays out the problem and solution. I especially like the dark on light/light on dark transitions.

Yes, the real rule here is 'breaking the rules for a landing page. The author hasn't noted that his site is a one page site. I suspect that when he adds any extra pages the logo will appear back at the top again. Actually, I'd argue that a number of designers know that landing pages are not standard site pages. I certainly always design a content page to figure out the general structure and expect landing pages—particularly the home page—to potentially break these rules as their goals are different (by the time you end up on a content page, you are usually looking for specific information).

..and it's one of the first things I looked for also.

This feels like an overly strong assertion based on one piece of anecdotal data. Saying that you played with this and got good results in one case is different than saying you've done experiments for multiple different startup marketing pages and consistently those pages without a logo at the top perform better.

Google is one of the most intensive A/B testers in the technology space, and on every logged out page of Gmail and Google Drive and Google Calendar, guess where the logo is?

Edit: I would add though that the argument around communicating the "Why" is more important off the bat than the "who". That said, having a minimalistic logo in the top right or left won't likely distract them for very long - unless there's evidence of that?

Re: Logo Positioning.

Depends on the product. If your logo is a trusted brand, then displaying it front and center drives up sales. If it is unknown, then display it under the fold.

> Furthermore, rather than merely assuming I met my goals, I used analytics. Every metric shows that my design is successful.

Does this mean that, for example, the green button was A/B tested against the blue?

About design: why is not your main text width limited to 50-80em?

Newspapers have played around with this on their (paper) front pages:

http://www.newseum.org/todaysfrontpages/hr.asp?fpVname=CA_AD...

Putting "refers"/"hot boxes" above the logo to indicate some of the more interesting content inside.

That's a great example. Although unfortunately many newspaper websites are placing ads in that location.

Not to break up the design rebellion but the green button signup button gradient could've been done in a more appealing manner that would've retained the implied business goals.

A top-left logo, linked back to the root page, is part of the design language of the web.

I suspect a proper A/B test, of users attempting to complete common tasks (as per Jakob Nielsen's usability tests), would find customers slowed by the logo's absence.

But by all means, collect the data. (I don't see data here except for an assertion that the overall page design works. Well, maybe, but test the specific suggestion.)

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