Comment by hmottestad | Hacker News Reader

Comment by hmottestad | Hacker News Reader

I read through the beginning of the article and came to this:

"Life lesson for today: Approach your training with humility, a willingness to follow directives, and an immediate respect for your leaders. One day when you’re in charge, you can do things your way. Until then, do things their way."

I didn't really like that life lesson. Since I'm only 24 I might be too young to appreciate this lesson. However, I feel that following directions from anyone should always be followed carefully. Remembering three things:

1. The person who is giving you directions probably has a lot of experience and knows what he/she is talking about.

2. It's still just a person. A fallible one. And limited by their own knowledge and skill.

3. Failing is actually a good thing. And you will appreciate and understand your teachers point of view if you fail in the manner she/he is trying to avoid.

EDIT: Finished reading the article and mostly didn't like it. Most of the article is about not thinking for yourself and just doing what everyone else is doing/saying/telling you until you are 60 and can make everyone do what you want. All this might be a great approach to achieving a high rank in the military or in a rigid corporation. However it seems really dull and boring, and I strive to fight this kind of attitude since it will solve none of the bigger problems in society.

Bootcamp is designed to emulate combat stress to teach that group reliance rather than individual resolve is a more effective way to ensure the group achieves its goal.

You aren't supposed to live every day like you are in combat. The body can only take so much stress. This isn't even done in the Army/Marines.

However, when the shit hits the fan, your advice will do nothing but get you, and more importantly, the people relying on you, killed.

The reason you do not analyze/question orders is multi-fold, and includes:

1. You are in a poorer position than the person giving the order to understand the overall situation. (Note, this is also why western armies tend to push responsibility down to battlefield commanders where possible.)

2. Acting decisively with speed and momentum is more important than making the "correct" move.

3. (Poorly understood by civilians) Your life continuing may not be part of the objective of "success". In essence - sometimes leaders need to sacrifice good people in order to ensure the survival of the group, or the completion of an important objective that ensures the larger group is not defeated. For example: you may encounter a significant force that you need to withdraw from. This withdraw may be impossible unless someone with a machine gun covers it from a high point. Recovering this person following the withdrawal may be difficult or need impossible. You might happen to be that person. While this sucks for you, your inaction will result in 30 people dying instead of just 1-2. That's the call combat leaders make. Nothing in civilian life compares.

Well, I guess you've chosen the wrong career if your aim was to die of old age. Not that the recruiter tells you how much your wife will miss you after you're gone, or how much your children will cry because they don't have a dad. Or a mother for that matter.

I still find the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq so odd, why would anyone sign up to go fight over there? By now more people must have died in Iraq than being killed by Iraqis in the US.

Being that I'm probably on the cusp of becoming one of those old geezers who thinks you whippersnappers should pay more attention to us, I feel much like you do ("buck the trend!"), and I'd like to encourage it, with one caveat: study history. Realize that you are probably not the first, nor will you be the last. Study what others have done, not just to learn how much more has been done before you even got here, but to learn from the mistakes others have made. And yes, while others are human and fallible, you are too, and accounting for others fallibleness by questioning their judgment is probably far less important than forgiving them when they make mistakes.

Oh, and humility never hurts, even if you're not good enough to be humble ;)

Just remember one thing: war is a totally different environment from your everyday company (Yes, even different from YC-backed startups ;-).

There's a reason, why it is useful to have disciplined soldiers - it saves lives on the battlefield.

That's not to say, that you want drones. It just helps the group (not each individual soldier) if - at times - everyone just does what he/she is told to do.

> That's not to say, that you want drones.

Sure we do--remote-operated variety, please. ;)

Absolutely.

Increasingly, wars are won by geeks who think independently and subvert conventional authority. That was almost as true in WWII as it is today, arguably all the way back to ancient Greece.

If you find yourself in a situation where (as run4yourlives put it) you're the guy who has to man a machine gun to cover your company's retreat, you are indeed a victim: not of the enemy's actions, but of your own leadership's incompetence -- or worse, treason. You have made a monstrous mistake, one that you will have had many opportunities to avoid.

It's interesting to read this article back-to-back with this one: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-21768668

War is a racket. Avoid wars, if possible. If you can't avoid them, don't be cannon fodder, and resist anyone's attempt to treat you that way. This policy scales remarkably well.

Yep. Just like when your primary school teacher tells you to not run with the scissors. That is the kind of advice you should take to heart very quickly....or alternatively create scissors that won't hurt you when you run/fall with them.

Pity this article has such poor examples. Like the guys who hit each other with their helmets, or the one with the ice cream on his head.

Wholeheartedly agree. You can achieve much of the same outcome with less "drastic" behaviours.

That's a horrible lesson, you should always question. Do things because you understand why, not because someone tells you so.

Also, respect is earned, it is not given away or it is meaningless. A person in a leadership has to earn respect, and he has to earn it from everyone. Simply giving it to them because they are in a leadership position means nothing.

3. Failing is actually a good thing.

No. Business is not the military, and they are not that similar. In business, money is how we keep score. In war, death is how we keep score. Failing is a deadly mistake in war.

It's about training. Were failing is usually good.

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