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Why is this nonsense the top comment? How can you, from your study of a cohort of one, assert that no one can beat depression because you haven't? That's a potentially fatal message you're sending, and it's based solely on your own experiences.

People get depressed for all sorts of reasons. It's bad enough that some doctors would lump the majority of patients as being clinically depressed and prescribe drugs that may end up doing more harm than good (note: I'm not saying all drugs are bad, but they're not always prescribed correctly). Now we're saying your fate is sealed, you just have to manage for the rest of your life.

Edit: I don't even know if "beat" is the right word to use, it suggests that a patient is at fault if he/she hasn't been able to "beat" the illness, which is just wrong. But two things: (1) not all depression is caused by a chemical imbalance, or at the very least, there are multiple causes from life stressors to physical illnesses (2) if depression is caused by a chemical imbalance, I don't know of any study that says chemical imbalances can't be reversed.

> I don't even know if "beat" is the right word to use

I might be in some cases.

While it doesn't work for all people, I would say that I have "beat" my own depression-related illness (Panic Disorder) through a standard psychological regime called Cognitive Behavior Therapy (CBT). Basically you learn about the mental instincts which are leading you into vicious circles and train yourself to avoid getting into trouble to begin with.

If you can gain control of these instincts (not all people can) you can literally stop depressive spectrum disorders this way (although I'll point out: Panic Disorder is one of the most responsive depressive disorders to CBT).

> not all depression is caused by a chemical imbalance

The essence of somatic conditions like depression is that your brain controls your hormonal and neurotransmitter homeostasis -- even if you're not always aware that it's doing so. If you change your brains habits, you change your chemical levels.

People try to beat cancer too, with medical help, but it is known not to be their fault.

Your edit is why this nonsense is the top comment. Because beat is not the right word and gives the impression that the patient is at fault among other things I go into. My message isn't fatal at all. It's hopeful. I said nothing negative. All I'm saying is that to believe you've beaten depression is a dangerous thing not that there's no hope for anyone who's depressed.

Both in your reply and in the original article, I wish there had been more attention paid to the value of talk therapy in some cases. While it may be true that for some depression originates as a chemical imbalance in the brain, I think for many or even most, it originates from psychological pain.

Therapy can and does routinely help provide lasting help with depression. I don't know what "beating it" means but some people can definitely become free of the symptoms of major depression without taking any medication or exercising or any of the other things listed by discovering the sources of their feelings and confronting them with the help of a therapist.

I believe it is a chemical balance, which requires chemical intervention.

Depression seems to be defined (or at least is talked about like) a set of symptoms. As far as I can see, it's like the observed state of data corruption: there are many, many things that can cause that, some being an order of magnitude easier to fix than others.

Sometimes people feel horrible for a real reason, but don't know why. It would be foolish to medicate that away.

What if the chemical imbalance is a symptom of depression, and not the cause?

Chemical imbalance just means a chemical level associated with feeling bad. Which is also what psychological pain is. So you will you need to be more specific if you want to differentiate.

I've been stuck at that stage of thinking as well, and after many data points that got shunted aside. Currently the most interesting and fun counter point to it I am using is that its not just "mind", but a mind-body issue.

There are many ways in which your body function influences and alters mood and perception, and vice-versa.

Talk therapy goes the other way too, it has the potential to alter the equation, provided other things are done as well.

Exercise is a chemical intervention. It is not a panacea and it will take time, typically weeks before it has a significant effect, but it does have an effect. The body is the temple of the soul, you should not ignore either.

Going to back that up at all? I believe in unicorns, by the way.

Obviously brain chemistry is involved (reduced serotonin, etc.), but I'm sure I could adjust your brain chemistry by jumping out at you and saying boo too; so I don't it follows that chemical intervention is the only approach that will change your brain chemistry.

I think antidepressants are very important and a great tool if you are suffering from severe depression, but I don't think they are the only answer nor a long-term solution, alone.

As an e.g. a metastudy on CBT - https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S027273580... - indicates that it is both effective and superior to antidepressants alone.

Given the nature of depression, which really muddles your mind clear advice is vital - go see your doctor, get onto antidepressants (you don't have to be on them forever), get onto a form of therapy. The shit works.

I would say that depression is like alcoholism: You never stop being an alcoholic, but you can stop drinking. Even a dry alcoholic has troubles with alcohol, and may need to struggle with that, even though they are successful in containing their affliction.

Similarly, some people will always be susceptible to depression (I coin the term "depressives"). But, like an alcoholic can learn how to stop themselves from drinking, a depressive can learn how to prevent themselves from sinking into an actual episode of depression. There is always an underlying condition that never goes away: in alcoholism it's a compulsion, while in depression it's... something else. But the struggle to contain that condition goes from being a lost battle, to occasional temporary victories, to a day-to-day thing, until eventually it's just a thing.

So, you can't beat depression in the sense of winning a final victory and then it's gone forever. A depressive will always be a depressive, even when not in the middle of an episode of depression (and there's more to that than just sometimes becoming depressed--and not all of it is bad!). But, it can be possible to manage it to the point where it is effectively and indefinitely contained.

"Depressive" is a standard term, so you made a good choice.

I'd like to second this comment. Depression as a syndrome is something that segments of the population have varying levels of susceptibility. Part of the "cure" is learning to distinguish when you are exhibiting the symptoms of depression and can get to help.

I suffered with depression for 20 years. A combination of drug and talk therapy helped me tremendously. After a couple of years, I can now recognize the symptoms of depressive thinking and engage in strategies to get to a better way of thinking.

I've suffered from MDD and tried to kill myself several times, the last attempt was very serious and I almost did die.

Now, almost a decade later and I think I can say I have "beaten" depression. The cure? Time, therapy, loving intimate relationships and judicious use of psychedelics.

I can't say you haven't beaten depression because I just don't know you but for me believing that I've beaten it is dangerous. It's the same kind of logic behind why addicts say they're recovering and not recovered. The disease is still there and can show itself at any time but for now it's in "remission" I suppose you could say.

A lot of people feel like admitting they can't beat depression is a sign of weakness and that if you "beat" it or become "cured" of it that that's somehow a badge of honor. I don't feel that way. I think admitting you can't truly beat this and knowing your limits is the smartest and bravest thing a person can do. I know that if something were to happen and I fell into my old depression again I'd certainly feel even worse after having thought I'd beaten it. Even if I were to say I beat it today while I'm feeling good, that would be a lie. I haven't beaten it. It's still there. I feel it. It wants to consume me all the time but I don't allow it to right now. It hangs on to me every single day, even on days like today when I'm feeling good. The only difference between depressed me and "cured" me is how I deal with it. I'm sure this would be impossible to understand for someone who's never experience depression but even though I struggle with depression every day of my life, I'm not depressed. And that has everything to do with how I've learned to deal with it - I just kind of work around it and don't feed it.

Like I said, I can't and I'm not saying you haven't beaten it. I just can't understand how anyone can really beat it at least not with my understanding of the word "beat" I suppose.

"but for me believing that I've beaten it is dangerous". Is it really that dangerous? Does 'beating' it mean you forget how to cope?

I don't know your situation, but I would strongly advise contemplating the truth that lies behind self-fulfilling prophecies. As Confucius put it “He who who says he can and he who says he can’t are both usually right”. I'm not trying to condense the issue into a soundbite, but rather illustrate that being open to the possibility that you can beat it might mean you can actually beat it.

I truly wish you well.

I second this comment.

Short answer: yes.

Long answer, think of it like an addict. They always called themselves 'recovering' because they know it only takes a single slip to set you back. Same with Depression. You can be fine for years, become lax in your coping mechanisms and handlers and something small happens that sets off a chain reaction where you are reaching for things you wouldn't normally reach for.

One innocent comments or look or phrase that slips past your carefully built safeguards is all it can take sometimes.

Thank you for your feedback adeaver.

I do understand the addict analogy, but in both cases I'd say the solution was the same... perhaps the issue is ongoing because the root cause of the problem is still there?

The triggers that set people off into addiction/depression are what separate those that are susceptible to those behaviours to those that are resilient to them. What are those triggers? What links them? What actions can be taken to reduce or remove their potency (taking the time to remember you always have choices to delay a reaction may help here)? These might be questions to explore with assistance from others.

Of course it's fantastic to have greater control over the symptoms of addiction or depression, and I in no way wish to diminish that achievement, I've worked on breaking a few (admittedly mild) addictions before and so do have a little understanding of the processes that addicts go through. So I hope you appreciate that I see 'recovering' as a great achievement.

Perhaps the 'beat' word sounds too absolute, too final... I personally would not say 'beating depression' means you have reached a perfect state of happiness, but rather that the triggers that held your recovery back no longer hold you back, so you are free to get better. Perfect is the enemy of the good, be happy that you are doing good. :-)

Yes. I had high cholesterol. I made lifestyle changes. I have low cholesterol now. Did I beat it? Sort of. But I can very easily get high cholesterol again, if I let my guard down.

Contrast that to, say, chicken pox, which I beat. And t almost certainly will not recur, even with no effort in my part-- even of I tried, I probably couldn't get chicken pox again.

I'm curious about the psychedelics, can you share more? What drugs? How often?

If you explore my previous comments and submissions you'll find some information about these matters.

In summary, there are a great deal of published resources about psychedelics, but they tend to be inaccessible to those without a good deal of psychedelic experience coupled with a penchant for reading academic or esoteric literature. Thus, for largely sociological reasons, most 'typical' modern users of psychedelics are not at all schooled in academic knowledge about them. On the other hand, the vast majority of systematizing, intelligent, intellectual types do not have sufficient experience with these compounds to really understand or effectively critique the literature about them.

So I'll mention a few quality sources that, if you study them, will almost assuredly arouse your curiosity:

* The Psychedelic Explorer's Guide (published book)

* The Antipodes of the Mind (published book)

* The Journal of Psychoactive Drugs (not just about psychedelics)

* Tryptamines I Have Known and Loved (published book, of particular edification and interest are the essays that precede the synthesis portion of the text)

* The research done by the Multidisciplinary Association for Psychedelic Studies (MAPS)

LSD has proven itself to be quiet beneficial in social situations many times in my life. For example, while 'up' on a moderate dose of high quality LSD, I watched a very attractive guy play guitar and sing at a house show. This led to me having an amazing fantasy experience days later where I finally started to deeply connect to my sexual desire for other men. This precipitated my decision to affirm my bisexual inclinations and pursue them, thus overthrowing years of internalized shame and confusion regarding this issue.

DMT and other very potent tryptamines have also proven to be potentially valuable in my experience. For example, while under the influence of a powerful dose of an orally administered research chemical tryptamine, I literally was able to relive my previous suicide attempt and forgive myself for such self destructive violence in a very deep and healing way. Words literally can't describe the true magnitude of the experience and the positive after effects are still in my life and personality years later.

Not very often but not infrequently either.

Thank you for sharing this.

Thanks for sharing.

I don't know what specific psychedelics he referred to but I can share something.

There is some research suggesting ketamine is useful for depression. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ketamine

There are legal substances which are similar ketamine which some people argue have similar properties.

I cannot verify and do not advocate.

This was on HN a couple of months ago: "Yale scientists explain how ketamine vanquishes depression within hours" https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4615602

> judicious use of psychedelics.

I'm really please to hear that this worked for you. However, I would caution anyone suffering from depression to consider that this form of self medication could potentially make your symptoms worse.

Entheogens/psychedelics have a tendency to amplify our inner state of mind, and if you're unprepared for this or in a bad place, this experience can have an extremely detrimental affect. I'm certain in that in the right context, with the right individuals, drugs like psilocybin and mescaline can be used therapeutically and can assist in making positive transformative changes. They need to be approached with a great deal of caution and respect however, and for most individuals conventional approaches may be safer.

I agree that if you're currently suffering from MDD, psychedelic use is very likely contraindicated.

I wasn't speaking of use while actually depressed.

How do you fail to kill yourself, multiple times?

I know that sounds unbelievably crude, but I'm really curious. My brother recently tried and I wonder (hope) that perhaps sometimes these attempts are more a call for help, rather than a genuine attempt.

I would also say that there is no "beating" depression and while that does sound bad, it doesn't actually mean that it will be a continuous struggle to be happy.

It has been around ~8 months since I was at my worst and while I have my bad days every once in a while, I am much happier than before and in a better overall state of mind. Eventually, even the bad days will go away (I think) but as far as "beating" depression goes, it's just always going to be there and you learn to live a happy life around it.

As far as any tips I can give to people with depression, I would say this: set up short term and long term goals and try to stick to them, eat healthy, exercise, and find new people to talk to. Do not be afraid to ask for help!

Also, if you are feeling suicidal at any point in time, do call the national suicide hotline. They are very helpful people and are available 24/7. They helped me greatly when I was extremely suicidal.

> I think the idea that you can actually conquer this disease sets you up for failure.

This idea needs to be heard. Depression quickly feeds on itself, making one hopeless about the inability to fight back against hopelessness. When I learned to accept that the depression was (temporarily) going to win, and that it was its own cause rather than something about myself or my life, I discovered I could just ride it out.

As with quicksand, it's the struggling that pulls you down deeper.

> I don't think one can actually beat depression but instead only really cope with the symptoms. I know that sounds awful and kind of defeatist (and I could be wrong) but I think the idea that you can actually conquer this disease sets you up for failure.

Honestly, for some people depression is effectively cured after a short course of treatment. Once you've treated the depression you develop skills for "resilience" (the new jargon term for 'coping with life'). Some of these skills involve CBT techniques; meditation and relaxation; mindfulness; and building networks of friends and family and developing activities.

While I wasn't cured after a 'short course of treatment' I started to get better from near-suicidal point when I started getting treatment. I had anxiety problems after that, but kept on at it.

It took me a good 5 years to deal with all of my emotional baggage, and from that I now have the skills to deal with shit, and to better perceive and handle my emotional state. I am now 100% depression free for almost 4 years now, and I have been able to completely cope with much worse situations than initially caused me to get depressed.

This stuff just takes time.

You are wrong, I beat depression. I don't just 'cope' with it, I actually don't feel depressed any more at all. And this is the rule rather than the exception, most people with depression recover just fine.

Do you have statistics on that? Anyway, "depression" is so vague/broad that it's like measuring whether most people with physical unfitness eventually recover just fine.

When I say 'depression' I mean one of the depressive disorders as per DSM criteria. Major depressive disorder is the only one that has > 50% relapse rate. Most depressed people do not have major depression.