Japan extracts gas from methane hydrate in world first | Hacker News Reader

Japan extracts gas from methane hydrate in world first

bbc.co.uk

58 pointsakandiah22 comments

If we could extract them at economic prices, that could have enormous significance.

The resources of methane hydrate are enormous. By some estimates there are more of them there other fossils: http://pubs.usgs.gov/fs/gas-hydrates/

On the other hand, if they start leaking we will have incredible strong greenhouse effect...

Wikipedia claims those estimates are obsolete, and the new ones are an order of magnitude smaller:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methane_clathrate#Reservoir_si...

In which case the largest fossil-fuel resource is coal.

The last New Scientist had an article on this. The primary unknown/concern was structurally destabilizing the seabed by extracting the methane. They were talking about replacing it with CO2 to keep the seabed stable, but said that was really only an idea and just extracting it was safe, you know, until the massive tsunami they cause kills 100,000 people <morbid joke/>

Extracting and burning for energy is leaking.

Methane is 25 times more potent as a greenhouse gas than carbon dioxide so you really need to burn it rather than just let it escape. Of course it just might be better to leave it frozen at the bottom of the ocean.

Methane unlike CO2 is unstable and breaks down fairly quickly producing CO2. So, it's really a short term problem.

Yes, that is true. The lifetime of methane in the atmosphere is 8 years compared to 100 years for carbon. The possible problem with extracting it is destabilizing the hydrates so you get a very large eruption which would release colossal quantities of the gas in a very short period of time.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atmospheric_methane has lots of useful information and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clathrate_gun_hypothesis has some interesting info on methane hydrate eruptions.

Edit: got my eruptions and irruptions in a twist.

Extraction can lead to leaks and what would amount to localized coal fires. However, to get a meaningful eruption, on the global scale, you need to change sea temperatures over a large area. Which requires insane amounts of energy making it vary hard to do accidentally as part of said extraction.

Though, the "25 times" takes the limited lifetime into account. The short term effect is much more. For example the so called "20 year global warming potential" is 72, compared to CO2's 1.

More here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global-warming_potential

I'm reminded of Homer Simpson confessing during an AA meeting that he was so desperate for a drink he ate the dirt under the bleachers at the football stadium.

C'mon world, enough with the fossil fuels.

When someone comes up with something that has all the positive characteristics of fossil fuel (handling and delivery, storage, easy taxing, all weather) then people will switch.

C'mon world, enough with the fossil fuels.

Easier said than done. Meanwhile Japan wants to power its factories, heat its homes and we want to pay 0.10 cents /KWh

Especially complicated after Fukushima's effect on popular domestic opinion regarding nuclear power.

Other, viable (and possibly clean) solutions: Solar electric. Solar thermal. Thorium.

Not every source of energy _must_ involve burning stuff and releasing more CO2 into the atmosphere.

FWIW, the electricity rate for me (near Tokyo) is about ¥25/kWh (so approx $0.25/kWh with current exchange rates).

i have a thing about mis-spelt units - it's a kWh /nitpick

also, did you mean 0.10 $/kWh ?

To match the energy contained in a gallon of gasoline, we would have to lift 13 tons of water (3500 gallons) one kilometer high (3,280 feet). With that kind of energy density and its established infrastructure it will be hard to dislodge.

or sink the wellhead processing unit to the sea floor...

Too bad natural gas is trading about what it was in 1980 (largely from lot of new supply from fracking), and about 60% below its peak in 2009 - at least in the US [1]. Although prices in Japan are about 5X higher [2]

1 - http://www.eia.gov/dnav/ng/hist/n9190us3a.htm

2 - http://www.marketwatch.com/story/us-natural-gas-prices-resha...

This is the start of building technology that should hopefully satisfy South Korea's need for more vespene gas.

We could just start burning old people. More energy, less social security. Double win!

They are already planing for that in the UK: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/energy/8917633/A-dead-heat-...

Reply on news.ycombinator.com