Musk extends Times feud, calls Model S review "ethics violation"
reuters.com
reuters.com
I looked at the chart. I read his response. I read the original. The Times journalist was clearly being honest. He had a really hard time with the car. I had the feeling he wanted the car to be great. He didn't want the disappointment.
Musk is painting him as a villain beset on destroying the future of electric propulsion. It's just not true.
Just fix the car. Make it better. Just make it better, Elon. You can make it better. It's a little broken right now, but you can do it. I still believe in you. I'm a little broken up about your personal issues here, but please, rise above it and make the car better and change the world. I mean, keep changing the world.
This is just a small distraction.
I highly doubt he can fix it. At least, not on his own.
1) There needs to be more accessible infrastructure. Having superchargers 200mi apart isn't sufficient. They need to be < 50 miles apart, ideally more concentrated in urban areas, and FTLOG why isn't there a charger in manhattan? The car may be able to reach the full range under ideal conditions, but in any non-ideal circumstance like the NYT trip the range will be diminished.
2) They need more realistic marketing. It's not a panacea, and to sell it as such is a misrepresentation. There are issues, the car must be coddled, and until that is explicitly admitted by Tesla marketing material people should not be expected to treat the car gently
This gets back to the marketing issue. If they made those issues clear, then Broder would have expected the effect.
I still question the claim made on http://www.teslamotors.com/models/facts
"The Model S battery will not lose a significant amount of charge when parked for long periods of time. For example, Model S owners can park at the airport without plugging in."
"Model S is engineered to perform in both hot and cold climates."
I'm sure if those types of claims were dialed down then the expectations would be more reasonable
His numbers, which he took pains to make appear exact, simply do not match the data. So where did he get the numbers? To me it seems extremely likely that he made them up to add veracity to his story. "Yeah, that sounds about right." This would not be the first time a journalist had done such a thing. He would have been fine if he had given approximate numbers, or if he had taken better notes, like a good journalist should. He clearly did neither of those things.
Having said that, the theme of the story, that Tesla has problems in cold weather, seems likely to be true. That seems like a worthy story to tell. With real data, from a test under realistic conditions.
Musk is harming his personal brand now, and he should stop for his own sake. But neither the Times nor Broder are in the clear, nor should they be.
The important point from the article is that, even with professional help, it's still difficult to fit an electric car in a gas car world. That's a reality.
That doesn't mean we don't keep moving forward.
What isn't fine is reporting precision that doesn't exist.
The point of such is to strengthen his reporting in ways it doesn't deserve. That's dishonest.
Giving a reporter a pass on that kind of thing is not the way we should go. He's not some casual person casually telling a story to a friend. He's reporting, in "the newspaper of record", and as facts, details that he doesn't have.
I honestly don't care one way or the other about Tesla. It's a long way from ready for mass use.
But I do care that reporters make up facts they don't have. That matters.
"Why are Elon's defenders hung up on this? It's a red herring."
I don't see how it's fine to just push blatant dishonesty to the side..yea it's understandable for people not to remember with precision - which is why journalists/reviewers take notes. We as the reader accept that when a journalist presents (and later defends) precise numbers that are put toward their argument that there is some basis of accuracy to it. When logs show up refuting these claimed accuracies then you start to wonder where else have similar things been 'skewed'.
If you think Elon Musk is 100% correct that the reporter was a liar, or that the reporter was 100% in the right for publishing a big picture of a Tesla Model S being towed, you're going to be disappointed.
Both sides are upset, extremely opinionated, and have their own slant on the matter. Both sides made mistakes, and probably could have held back on a few things they claimed.
Elon Musk should have focused just on the obvious faults of the reporter -- like how the reporter probably should have more clearly highlighted that he literally began a trip for X miles with Y miles range displayed on the dash, where X > Y by a considerable amount (rather than burying this fact in noise). Not little details like air conditioning and driving in circles to find the supercharger.
And similarly, although there's disagreement over what certain Tesla reps may have recommended over the phone, it seems at last slightly disingenuous to post a big photo of a Tesla Model S being towed given the fact that he started and forced a trip of length X when the car showed range Y on the screen, where X > Y by a considerable amount.
Saying that you lost respect for Elon Musk is your right. However I personally haven't lost much if any. He was defending a cause he felt strongly about. What was the reporter's motivations?
The article was clearly slanted. So was Elon's rebuttal, but with every force, expect an equal and opposite reaction.
I'm not condoning the rebuttal, but I would put it this way: I understand and sympathize with Elon's overreaction far more than I do with the reporter's initial motivations to slant the story. And he very clearly did slant it.
> Just fix the car.
That's not really the issue, even if he could fix it. Which is easier said than done; we're dealing with advanced material science here. You can bet his team is hard at work on it, but this is the kind of thing that takes many years of deep research. Let's deal with the issue at hand (slanted articles vs slanted rebuttals), for now.
I don't think the OP went into it thinking that Musk or Broder were right.
" just don't respect him anymore, not like I used to. I mean, I do, just not like I used to."
I interpreted that statement to refer to how Tesla reacted to the review. Musk could have taken the opportunity to clearly explain the extenuating circumstances and extended a new opportunity for Broder to take a test drive, but instead opted for this reality-TV-like drama to play out (which, btw, other media sources like CNBC and CNN really enjoyed).
Years of effort by thousands of people, doing something that matters.
To have that put at risk by a lazy/incompetent reporter, who's got nothing on the line but 24 hours of his ass in a car, someone who can't even take his job seriously enough to even attempt to get it right...it's got to be infuriating.
Put the echo chamber idiocy out of mind. There's someone who's right here. And it's not Broder.
Say, why hasn't Broder offered to repeat the drive? He's probably too busy figuring out how to review rocket technology without learning anything about that either.
What's clear, from an objective point of view, is that there were issues that could be attributed to Tesla. Musk still hasn't refuted the fact that Tesla engineers gave Broder really poor advice during the trip. Musk didn't produce the call logs, and the "data" corroborates most of Broder's claims regarding what happened during the drive.
"Elon Musk cares. He has everything on the line, and everything he's worked for "
Gives him more incentive to fight the NYT and try to paint Broder as an evil man. CEO has billions of dollars on the line, NYT reporter has his career on the line, yet if this were any other traditional company you would side with the reporter.
"To have that put at risk by a lazy/incompetent reporter, who's got nothing on the line but 24 hours of his ass in a car, someone who can't even take his job seriously enough to even attempt to get it right...it's got to be infuriating."
Broder did get it right, and Musk's data and nonsequiturs proved it. The core facts were that Broder followed Tesla's advice and, by following the advice, the car ran out of charge. You are letting your blind faith in Musk cloud your reasoning abilities
"Say, why hasn't Broder offered to repeat the drive? He's probably too busy figuring out how to review rocket technology without learning anything about that either."
Why hasn't Musk revealed the call logs with the advice Tesla gave Broder during the trip? Is it because they would corroborate Broder's story? Most likely.
Musk hasn't painted Broder as evil. Publicity-seeking and/or incompetence aren't evil. It's just amplified by the backdrop of electric cars.
If Musk hadn't called bullshit when he saw it, it would have been open season on Tesla by every copycat hack trying to get a piece of the action.
You can be sure that journalists covering Tesla for publications of record will be quite careful and accurate with their facts, good and bad, from now on.
I don't think Musk can ask for more than that.
And Musk can't ask for more than that.
http://www.roadandtrack.com/car-reviews/road-tests/road-test...
http://money.cnn.com/2013/02/15/autos/tesla-model-s-lessons/
http://www.edmunds.com/tesla/model-s/2013/long-term-road-tes...
"Musk hasn't painted Broder as evil."
Musk wrote (source: http://www.teslamotors.com/blog/most-peculiar-test-drive):
In Mr. Broder’s case, he simply did not accurately capture what happened and worked very hard to force our car to stop running.
I'm sorry, but that's absolutely painting Broder as Evil. I'm going to repeat the claim, because for some reason you don't see this as nefarious: worked very hard to force our car to stop running."If Musk hadn't called bullshit when he saw it, it would have been open season on Tesla by every copycat hack trying to get a piece of the action."
Instead, it was open season to attack NYT.
"You can be sure that journalists covering Tesla for publications of record will be quite careful and accurate with their facts, good and bad, from now on.
I don't think Musk can ask for more than that."
What Musk is asking for is the media to be his lapdog. And that's fine. But don't delude yourself into thinking he's asking for objectivity. You are belying your own inability to think.
Here's how you call someone evil:
"You are evil."
There! Massive simplification! We don't need to read between the lines and feed our paranoia.
[citation needed].
Given the claims made and the data provided, I doubt anyone would be so deliberately obtuse as to reach a different conclusion simply because of the company involved.
I thought that too. Then I saw how some people on HN (you can use the search to find some of the posts) were arguing that NYT was lying merely based on the fact that Musk is a scientist or because he was trying to change the world. And frankly, some people really are unable to separate their love for Musk and electric cars from the situation.
I read all of the accounts, starting from the original Broder article, and it's clear that Broder didn't "work[...] very hard to force our car to stop running." (http://www.teslamotors.com/blog/most-peculiar-test-drive).
I thought Broder lied about how fast he was going for the whole trip.
Data: very strange readout at 400 miles (looks like stop and go), followed by period averaging 52 mph
Counterreply: "but it may be the result of the car being delivered with 19-inch wheels and all-season tires, not the specified 21-inch wheels and summer tires. That just might have affected the recorded speed, range, rate of battery depletion or any number of other parameters. "
Verdict: There are three possibilities:
1) Broder thought he was going at 45 mph but in fact was going faster
2) Broder intentionally sped up
3) The instrumentation was off
The car data doesn't reflect what the instrumentation showed, so (3) can't be determined. I personally find (1) much more plausible than (2), especially since I do this as well when test-driving cars I'm not used to driving.
Broder: "planted myself in the far right lane with the cruise control set at 54 miles per hour"
Data: Averaging 60 mph
Counterreply: "I do recall setting the cruise control to about 54 m.p.h., as I wrote. "
Verdict: Tesla should be recording these actions as well. In absence of cruise control data, it's a he-said-she-said.
I can appreciate the argument that Broder was lying if there was a very large discrepancy between the claims and the data. But honestly, I couldn't tell the difference between 40 and 50 mph in my 911, and that's a car I've had for more than a year, so I wouldn't be surprised if he saw the speedometer, thought he was going at a certain speed, and watched the road most of the time. I know I don't spend my driving time with my eyes glued to the speedometer -- I think watching the road is far more important.
Given that even the data corroborates the claim that he was under the speed limit during those times (e.g. averaging 60 in a 65 mph zone is under speed limit), protesting over 5-10 mph comes off as niggling moreso than malice
Telsa is starting to get a reputation as being toxic to the media.
I also think it's a mistake for Elon to continue claiming that the reporter acted in bad faith. There's no way to prove that; the data can show where the car went but not what was going on in the reporter's head.
Elon's passion is changing the world, and I admire him immensely. The problem with passion is that it can sometimes cause a person to act rashly. If I were Elon, I'd find a cool-headed trusted friend to help me choose my battles a little more wisely.
Nice game of Telephone. Musk actually said the damage to Tesla's reputation was a big part of that.
It's one thing to attack a show like Top Gear. It's a whole other to attack the New York Times. People around the world have a lot of respect for the paper and whilst nobody claims that they are always right there is the assumption that they wouldn't intentionally be dishonest or biased.
So by continually picking a fight with them people will tune out and just take the "truth lies in the middle" position which is not good at all for Tesla.
Defamation? Really? I think Clarkson was actually pretty fair, considering his usual style. What they showed at least seems believable to me.
Which, sadly, brings us back to what they say about why Top Gear US can't be like Top Gear UK. Try that style in the US, and everybody is jumping down your throat.
That being said, I - and most of my acquaintances - still love American culture - the kind of 'just do it'(TM) attitude, shown as well by Elon here - the stunts he's pulling with three high risk industrial companies at the same time is pretty much unthinkable in 'the old world'. And I'm not sure, but maybe his aggressive stance, the ability to sort of indoctrinate himself with his vision, might actually be needed to push through these grand projects. It's not unlike what we've known from Steve Jobs, really. Most people would agree that he was quite an ass - but by god he was an influential one.
In other words: while getting sued for a bad revue strikes me as distinctly American, I can't picture Clarkson getting flak in America for saying many of the more "offensive" things he seems to get flak for in the UK. I think Americans would be more understanding of the fact that Clarkson's public persona is basically a satire of itself and that comments like "I would take them outside and execute them in front of their families" clearly should not be taken seriously.
Then again Gilbert Gottfried did get fired from his duck commercial gig over some silly joke... Maybe I'm giving Americans too much credit.
His issues with the Times seem far more reasonable.
Musk aside, is there a youtube link for that?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-TbpgZ2Dt0A
I think they also mentioned when reviewing one of those crazy open-wheelers that it was supposed to be able to drive upside-down simply due to downforce, but I don't think they demo'd that.
F1 teams also commonly claim their cars could drive upsidedown, but the logistics of actually trying that would be absurd. You'd probably need a robotic driver at least...
In the end, he is the CEO of a public company, he should hire a professional to deal with this. The bottom line is that Tesla batteries do drain on the cold and Musk keeps reminding people.
Comment: musk has made two of the most incredible companies of our decade, Tesla and Space X, they will mature. Any issues will resolve and the world will be better because of it.
Screw the Times.