The early 2013 retina MBP 15” have faulty firmware/hardware | Hacker News Reader

The early 2013 retina MBP 15” have faulty firmware/hardware

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112 pointsniggler81 comments

The 2012 15" rMBP had considerable bugs in the SMC and UEFI that took half a dozen firmware updates, several dozen OS X seeds, and the better part of a year to resolve. I had a particularly nasty bug where any time I unplugged my Mac from the charger, 5 seconds later it would go to sleep though it was still open and I was actively using it. You'd have to shut the lid and re-open it for it to wake again.

I also had the infamous ghosting issues, though my LG panel was decent enough that I put up with it for a few months. Luckily, when I took it in to get the entire upper clamshell replaced, there was a new part number in stock literally the day before that had apparently resolved the problem.

I've purchased a dozen or so MacBooks since the original Unibody and countless iPhones, iPads and other minor Apple products — it is my opinion that engineering quality has gone down over the past two years considerably.

As for the issue TFA refers to - it does not plague my 2012 rMBP and I'm sure Apple will, sooner or later, issue a patch to fix it. It's just a question of whether you believe they still have their shit together or not.

(awesome song, btw!)

I haven't have ghosting issues in my 2012 15" retina, but it has the nasty habit of shutting itself down sometimes. Only good thing is it starts up fast enough.

I _still_ have the "goes to sleep 5 seconds after unplugging" bug and I've installed all updates and am running the latest version of everything. And have done SMC and NVRAM resets. How were you able to fix this?

My wife's 2012 11" MBA has this same issue, it's not related to just the MBP line.

Oh man, I totally thought that the '5 second bug' is a feature. For example if someone takes your laptop and starts running then it would lock itself :P

I have a similar problem where when I open and unlock my MBP (late 2012 w/ 15" Retina).. 5 seconds later the screen goes black and its locked again. I can unlock again no problem, but its a bit annoying

I've also noticed a significant down-turn in production quality from Apple in the past few years. I have a G4 iBook sat in a cupboard which will still boot up without a single issue (not even any dead pixels), but my 2010 MBP had some weird issues (like the case erroding). And my partner's 2009 MacBook has pretty much been entirely replaced. New HD, new screen, new motherboard, new case.

These days I would never recommend buying a Mac unless you also buy the 3 year warranty.

same here.. 2009 MBP, screen replaced, motherboard replaced, swollen battery and after 3.5 years wouldn't boot anymore so I gave up on it. Must be bad luck but considering the price paid (and imagining what I would have paid if not having had the extended warranty) this wasn't exactly a nice experience with Apple and not in line at all with their commercials / global idea people have about it.. Esp. since it was my first product from them.

Yep, I'm not too impressed when my 2010 MBP occasionally electrocutes me. Once through my earplugs which was particularly unpleasant.

I think every MBP I had after my iBook did that to me.

My 2012 rMBP seems to freeze for 5-10 seconds occasionally. dmesg has logs of the graphics driver complaining about a possible hang. We're definitely on the bleeding edge here :(

My 2012 rMBP just started randomly locking up, forcing me to do a hard reboot. It's weird because sometimes I can move the cursor around, but nothing else will work.

How long does it hang? I assume permanently? On mine the caps lock key light doesn't respond to press/unpress (my standard test of system liveness), and then it comes back to life about 5-10 seconds later.

My circa 2009 iMac does the same thing.

Flash was one of the major contributors to the issue. Even then, after a few days of uptime, video doesn't play properly and browsers will beachball constantly. The solution is to party like it's Windows in 1999 -- reboot.

http://youtu.be/5Kod1q39ddE

But have they fixed the problems with the previous generation? I have a couple issues with my 2012 retina MBP. These are all corroborated by others on Apple's support community:

* LG panel ghosting

* Graphical glitches in Safari

* Audio clicks, pops and stutters when using Intel graphics

* Power manager issues: Sometimes it'll drop to sleep when I unplug the magsafe, even though the laptop is in use. Sometimes it has trouble waking from regular ("closed lid") sleep - maybe every other week I have to go as far as holding down the power button to force a power off to get it back.

I haven't been to an Apple store because I can't be without my machine for a week or however long it'll take to fix, and it sounds from the discussions forum that many of these problems have no fix, or it's random if you'll get a new part that works right or not.

See my top-level comment.

* Graphics issues are fixed in 10.8.3 (still in beta). It appears that the drivers have been rewritten from scratch, this was the worst beta seed series I can recall for any OS X release, ever, with new seeds days apart, seeds that were completely broken, kernel and graphics driver instabilities, etc. The latest seed is much improved and should address this issue.

* LG panel ghosting: I had my clamshell replaced a few months ago. There was a new part number, it has been officially "fixed."

* I have hisses and pops when listening via headphones, but not over the speakers

* Power management: Finally fixed with latest firmware updates + 10.8.3 + reset NVRAM/PRAM and SMC. Firmware updates plus NVRAM [0] and SMC [1] reset will likely fix it for you.

0: http://support.apple.com/kb/HT1379

1: http://support.apple.com/kb/HT3964

Apple's DACs have hissed for a long time. My 2010 MBP had the same problem. They just use shitty DACs.

There's no hiss at all with my late 2008 15-inch MacBook Pro...

...but there is an annoying pop every time the audio driver enables/disables the DAC, presumably for power savings reasons. (One day I'm going to get annoyed enough to patch the driver to not do that when the laptop's on external power.)

Aren't they using the same "HD Audio" chips as everybody else?

My 2011 MBP also hisses clicks and pops, but tbh it's no different to the audio on any other laptop, or the integrated audio on most desktops.

The problem I'm having with the retina isn't just hissy/poor quality. The audio literally cuts out or lags for a fraction of a second, causing very audible crackling. First time it happened I thought I had ripped a CD incorrectly, it sounds like a CD with scratches in it. And it disappears when you disable the intel integrated graphics and switch to the nVidia.

Interesting... I have a problem with a Mid 2011 iMac where the audio does the same thing. It's an i7 so I was pretty certain that I wasn't pegging the CPU; I chalked it up to a problem with VLC but perhaps there's more to it than that.

I've never noticed this problem with my rMBP.

I guess I'll just have to sit tight for 10.8.3, and then when I have a lull in work go to an Apple store and try to get the panel swapped. Glad to hear they finally acknowledged the ghosting issue.

I had 2 screens replaced on this retina, this is both the best and worst apple laptop i've ever had.

Time to try the power stuff to see if I can stop the stupid power management bugs.

I've had the same power management issue for my non-Retina mid-2012 MBP. The main issue is that the machine insists on doing something whenever AC power status changes. Even if the machine is asleep, it'll wake for 10 seconds or so and then sleep again. Even if you change the appropriate pmset flags, which is unnerving, because those flags are now being ignored. The best way to reproduce is to take the sleeping MBP, unplug it, open the lid, and begin using it. BAM, it goes to sleep on you!

The problem appeared either with 10.8.2 or a firmware update that arrived around that time. There are a couple Apple support threads about it, and I've done everything (yes, I've reset the PRAM).

I hope it gets fixed soon.

I can confirm having this problem too. The reason the system powers back on when you change AC status is because of the Power Nap feature, but you're right, even when it's completely disabled, and even when you adjust pmset to disable 'safe sleep', it still happens.

I just spent 1 hour today at the Apple store and talking to Apple care getting my brand new (2 days old) 15 Retina MBP replaced. It kernel panicked on me and bricked itself. The only sign of life is a slight hum of a fan when I try to power it on.

It's the first Apple product I've bought but I can't shake the feeling that this frequency of bad hardware is becoming normal.

I had an 06 MacBook that was an absolute lemon. Had to bring it in for randomly turning off and go through two motherboard replacements before they sent it away for 4 weeks to redesign the motherboard. Then it still had to go back in several times before they finally just gave me a new one almost a year newer because of how troublesome it was. I don't think this is a sign of getting worse!

(I now have a 2012 rMBP and absolutely love it)

>It's the first Apple product I've bought but I can't shake the feeling that this frequency of bad hardware is becoming normal.

Probably because you haven't experienced the overheating G4 Cubes, the liquid cooling dripping G5 Pros, the frequently crapping out on the motherboards iBook G3, the wheezing MacBook Pros, and tons of similar stuff.

There's even a saying that goes as far back as 2002: NEVER buy Apple 1gen product (like the Retina was) --or at least be cautions. Wait till the put the second generation in the market.

So nothing to do with "declining quality" as such. All new models have some ironing out of issues to do, and all models will have some problematic runs. Same thing in the PC world, be assured, just that noone buys 3 million of the exact same PC model, whereas in the Mac world they do.

> overheating G4 Cubes

I'm not sure that anybody ever had that issue. Mine has been in constant use since it's purchase, and it's never once had overheating issues, even in 40c+ ambient temperatures. Even if it did, there's a dandy little slot in the bottom for adding a fan if you choose.

http://www.pcmag.com/slideshow/story/294758/10-gadgets-we-co...

> It had some major overheating issues that produced miniscule cracks in its porcelain body. Another major flaw was that it didn't have a fan, so users had to shutdown every so often and let the vent breathe. Apple stopped selling the Cube within a year of its release.

I don't believe the "shutting down" bit. My stock Cube runs constantly, shuffling backups, processing logs and performing health checks. It's uptime is around 4 months now, and was almost 2 years before I moved to a new apartment.

>I'm not sure that anybody ever had that issue.

It probably didn't affect all production runs of the Cube, but still lots of people had them, search "g4 overheating" for some examples.

There were a lot more complaints back in the day. Note that "overheating" doesn't necessarilly mean "shuting down".

I think that's the distinction. They get warm but certainly don't overheat. The only one I've seen with heat problems had a dual core 1.2gHZ CPU retrofitted. Undesirable to the point that half the heat sink had to be filed away to make it fit.

The irony is that I got my rMBP right after they came out, and it's been golden. It almost seems like the more recent ones have been worse?

The thing to keep in mind with Apple is that they sell huge volumes, so even a low defect rate will result in thousands of unhappy customers. And generally speaking, folks with complaints are much more likely to post them online.

I had the same issue, they fixed it without 2 days without discussion though. A motherboard replacement was required there, billed out for about $800 (of course for me it was free).

After all I'm still glad having a macbook. Friend of mine bought a $2.5k lenovo that bricked itself after a month, after having serious thermal management problems (the GPU would suddenly clock down). It took them more than six weeks to get him a replacement.

We spent an hr at the Apple store and 1 hr on the phone speaking with their customer care, but they pretty much refused to believe that it was an actual issue! And we have the same issue with two macs, not one!

The biggest problem by far isn't in the computer case. Its in the Apple store. The hardware's the same as ever, in the store however, "let me get that fixed for you" has become "that's not our problem".

Why worry about this when the LG panels have horrible ghosting? I had to have mine replaced, and luckily got a Samsung panel (this was on the original Retina 15" hardware, though apparently this happens elsewhere too).

I've had lots of problems with Apple hardware over the years, most of it dealt with very well by Apple, but the panel ghosting was by far the worst.

I'd open Gmail, read email for 2 minutes, then flip to my terminals on another desktop and could still read my email. Yuck.

This doesn't surprise me at all.

I've had so much Apple kit pack in on me it's unreal. It got to the point I dumped it all and switched to a 5 year old Lenovo unit which has been flawless.

While they look pretty, I'm not sure the engineering is sound or you're getting good value for money.

My anecdote masquerading as evidence: I have not had problems since the original two generations of Intel laptops. I think the engineering is great!

Soooo... Apple hardware being rushed and having quality issues. What else is new exactly?

This is probably what happens when you spend more money on lawsuits than research.

Thank you for contributing.

That's exactly what is new, though. A couple of years ago they had much higher quality computers (and the RAM wasn't glued in). Every time I see a post on here about Apple I mention this: I think they are pushing to get into the market of people that don't know how to use computers at the expense of their customers that do.

I used to buy Apple and recommend it. But they fucked up, they are increasingly trying to prevent developers from creating apps for their OS's without getting their approval first. Fuck that, that is anti-competitive and anti-freedom. I now recommend Android to people, but I am looking forward to Ubuntu phone (shopping lens and all :) ) and FirefoxOS as hopefully better alternatives.

I have a 2012 model with the 256 hd - I just downloaded and played the song and no fans came on.

Did have a dead pixel show up in my display but apple fixed that for free. Also it does get too hot for lap usage sometimes.

Other than that this is the best computer I've ever used. Pretty much every other computer I've use now seems slow and pixelated.

Re: heat. My problem is that when the fans of my 2012 rMBP are whirring, the heat emanates from the keyboard which is.... odd. It's not something I'm used to, and irks me to no end.

That's more or less happened with every Macbook Pro I've used since 2009.

Isn't that by design?

I am going to have to echo your sentiments. I too own the 2012 model and have experienced zero issues with mine [apart from the heat with intense CPU/GPU usage], and it is the best computer I have ever owned. I guess we're some of the lucky ones...

Yeah - me too. 2012/256GB HD/16GB RAM. Easily the best computer I've ever owned. Must be lucky?

i got my mbp 15 (ordered online) begin of february - it worked for 5 days then it was done.

i already noticed that i had big fan issues, and wondered about it, because co-worker has the same model and has no issues with the fans, and normally they only start when he is gaming, what is ok.

so i had some problems, but said "okey"... on day 5 i went afk from my mbp to play a round of fifa13, when i came back, i had a black screen and only saw my mouse courser, reboot showed flickering apple-logo, dir-icon, etc.

i tried everything to get my system back (after 5 days had not started with time machine) - no chance at all, the sdd was done...

my luck: in the next city we have an apple store, so i made an appointment for the next morning went there, they tested again the ssd, because i guess the normal case for them is: THE CUSTOMER IS STUPID, OTHERWISE HE WOULD NOT PAY THAT MUCH MONEY FOR THAT CRAPPY HARDWARE...

after the "genius guy" noticed that the ssd was crashed, he was like "ok i guess on the retina the ssd is not changeable anymore...let me talk to my boss what we can do for you, so that you get your mbp in 1-2 days, because its not ok then it will take 2 weeks on a 5 day old mbp until u get it back"

15 mins later he came back, and was like "ok it is possible to change the ssd, and we have one here..."

he changed it, reinstalled osx and i payed 0,00 - left the building...

since then i never heard anything back from my fans (only when i'm playing www.heroesofnewearth.com =D )

p.s.: it is my first mbp, and i really pissed already, all my co-workers have apple products too, and everybody is getting pissed and more pissed from day to day...apple hardware is getting crappy...

Discussion on the Apple Forum (more useful than the original link): https://discussions.apple.com/thread/4735947?start=210&t...

My friend got incredibly excited about the Retina MacBook and ordered one on the day of release. He has already been through seven of them. Yes - seven. And it wasn't even the screen each time - loose hinge, broken keyboard, SSD died.....you would have thought that in a machine for so much money they would've sorted this out.

Can someone explain to me why that file causes the issue to occur?

I can confirm this as well. I have a mid-2012 MPB retina with a 500.28 GB APPLS SSD SM512E (vs. the author's SD512E) and the fan has recently acquired a life of its own. I can understand it going berserk when the CPU is busy, but this happens even while its utilization is below 10%.

Very frustrating. Paid $3k for this machine and use it mainly for Pro Audio recording, so the noise really hurts... Wanted to buy a Mac Pro instead but, alas, last year's update was a joke. It's getting really hard to be a customer of Apple's high end machines, even for someone who likes their stuff and is gladly willing to pay.

just to add a counterpoint to this classic everything sucks on the internet thread:

no issues at all with a 13" 2012 MBAir. best machine I've ever owned, had Lenovos in the past. Last Thinkpad bluescreened sometimes when connecting a USB headset. The Air? Nothing has brought it out of step so far, which for a former Windows user, is simply amazing.

I've a slightly different machine: MBA 4.2, 2011. However, I still encounter an annoying bug in the SMC: fan won't shut up unless there's a sleep - wakeup cycle. http://support.apple.com/kb/ht3964 - it doesn't help. Had a SMC upgrade this year, but no dice. As a silent computing adept this is a major annoyance. The memory management of OS X is broken since 10.7. The only thing that keeps this machine responsive is the SSD. Call me a nostalgic, but I still think OS X 10.4 was probably the best release.

Same here, tried reproducing the issue without any success. Also, I can express the same feelings towards my 13" 2012 MBA - best machine I've ever had.

Third'd. Mine has been dead nuts reliable; no problems, no regret spending the most I have ever spent on a laptop.

If you are going to post online about a problem with an Apple product, I personally believe that it's a good idea to also file a bug (http://bugreporter.apple.com) and include a bug number in your post. Doubly so if you submit it to HN.

It is possible that there are people who work at Apple that read HN and if you post a bug number one of those people might then be able to open the bug.

When I first bought the MBP 15" retina, my screen started ghosting. I got it replaced 3 times. Even though its an issue that was resolved with an update the staff at the Apple store told me they will not consider it to be a problem unless a certain amount of reports of it have been filed, so if you have the problem, report it, get your laptop sent in because they need laptops that produce this problem in order to fix it.

Maybe your MacBook is fan of dubstep ;)

I'd say the audio is leaking into the fan controller, and your dubstep just happens to contain the pattern that's sent to the controller to signal spin up. the controller probably uses some simple serial bus protocol, maybe i2c.

Edit: For people who are more adept at peeping at the song's spectrum: on the Apple forum people report the fan speedup to occur at 0:28, 1:47, 2:05/2:10, 2:30, and 3:50

I was supposed to buy one this week. Now I'm scared...

You're scared that one model has a bug where you play a specific song in a specific media player, the fans spin more than they should? and it can be fixed with a firmware update?

You scare easily.

I have been considering an upgrade, but have been more worried about getting an LG screen with awful ghosting.

I had an LG with really bad retention - I took it to an Apple store where the rep saw the issue. Two days later I picked it up and haven't had a problem since. It was very easy to get it replaced and is great for coding for me.

Thanks for the data point!

I have a 2009 mbp (matte screen! ;_;), and the retina seems like the best display to upgrade to from the matte for 'staring at text for hours'.

Just make sure you get Applecare with it.

Of course not. Apple Care never helps. Get a better home insurance instead - it's cheaper, and will replace your computer for free, even if you spill water on it (I experienced it).

"Apple Care never helps."

What do you mean? I had my motherboard/discrete graphics-card replaced without extra costs through Apple Care.

Isn't that covered by basic warranty? I had a macbook start to lock up randomly on me a month or two after buying it and they replace its mainboard no problem without me needing Apple Care.

After 4 Apple Macbooks since 07: never buy the first gen of any Apple hardware.

I'm running iTunes 11.0.2 and it won't even let me add this file to my library. It won't attempt to play via Quick Look from Finder, either.

2013 MBP 15" 256GB (APPLE SSD SD256E Media). Downloaded the song and right around the 1:47 mark the fans started going crazy :\

This also happened to me after I purchased the MBP and started it for the first time, about an hour in. Out of nowhere it just started spinning the fans to the max. Has been over a month without it happening, but this song made it do the same every time.

I made a video of the problem: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ly0Sp7lMKJU

I've been using the retina MBP 15" heavily since its release. I noticed the fan for the first time last week when I was booted into Windows.

There are other issues with the machine—notably the screen flicker and ghosting that others have had issues with—but I wouldn't worry about this.

Weird. Never had hardware problems with Macs like those being reported here. Worst I ever got was hard drives dying and a ram module going bad.

My sister had a bad MBP from about 5 years ago that just kept having all sorts of problems though. Bad batteries, like 3 replacement mobos, bad hard dive, etc.

I think hardware issues might just be a batch based crapshoot.

The last link is apparently the source of your information but it is not referenced as such. Why not?

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