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Comment by lucaspiller | Hacker News Reader

It looks very nice, and I'm pretty impressed with the effects.

I do have to admit though that personally I just don't 'get' rougelikes, maybe I'm just too young, but they just don't really interest me.

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Normal game: You pick up an unknown potion. Do you drink it? You save the game and drink the potion. The potion kills you. You reload the game, dont drink the potion, and move on to the next level.

Roguelike: You pick up the potion. Do you drink it? Hmmm...too risky, it could kill you. You decide to visit a wizard who can identify it for you. Oh no! A monster. You fight! The monster is strong...You're down to 1 health..the potion is your last chance...AHHHHGH OMG IT WAS POISON. <or> OMG ITS A HEALTH POTION I LIVE TO FIGHT ANOTHER DAY!

People play roguelikes because the specter of permanent death (no save games* ) creates tension and suspense you rarely see in other games. This tension has a dramatic influence on gameplay choices and the emotional response elicited by those choices.

If, however, it's the oldskool text graphics and complex control schemes that you dont 'get', you'd be forgiven for thinking that 'ascii graphics = roguelike'. This is not the case, its just that the many famous roguelikes are dungeon crawlers with this graphical style. And yes, the controls are complex and the learning curves are steep. They are not for everybody. ADOM is my favourite roguelike dungeon crawler.

The best (IMHO) recent roguelike is FTL: Faster Than Light. Its a spaceship combat/strategy game designed to be played so a session lasts about 30-90 minutes. The graphics are nice and the gameplay is simple to understand but difficult to master. Its brilliant.

FTL: http://www.ftlgame.com/

ADOM: http://www.ancardia.com/download.html

*Generally you can have one save game. So you can save and quit but then have to resume that same game.

Permadeath only really works for games that don't have an explicit narrative. It's no fun to die and then have to sit through the same conversations and plot twists all over again. Roguelikes tend to be complex and random enough to allow the player to experience something entirely new each time they play. There's still an overall story, but every telling of it is unique.

I agree, and I think you've touched upon a critical point.

One thing you'll notice about roguelike forums is the number of 'storytelling' threads where a player recounts their adventure. The lack of explicit narrative is more than compensated by user generated narrative.

Much like emergent gameplay (ie Minecraft), good roguelikes create emergent narrative. The narrative is worth sharing because of the surprising random encounters and do-or-die decisions.

I suspect this partly explains why most roguelikes have such simple graphics. A friend remarked that FTL was 'good for the imagination'. Basic graphics leave much to the imagination which enriches the internal narrative of the gamer.

That said, I dont think AAA graphics exclude a roguelike experience, and are in fact a barrier of entry for some younger gamers.

I think it would be reasonable to have a Rogue-like with a narrative if the death of your character did not mean the death of the world. Maybe dying would mean that you had a new character in the same world. Omikron: The Nomad Soul had a similar mechanic (although it was non-random).

[edit] Shiren the Wanderer also has a notion of progress that is saved even though your character will die.

Thats a cool idea. Havent played either of those games but will check them out.

In Planescape Torment, your character wakes up after dying. In most situations in the game, dying has little consequences, you just wake up a little while later.

Yes, this is the opposite of permadeath.

I've thought about it some more, and I think the main issue is that most rougelikes I've seen are in the fantasy genre, but dungeons / castles / magic / etc don't really interest me at all. As such I've never really got into them to see what they can offer. I never knew that there was the randomness or permadeath - they are both pretty nice game mechanics.

I'm perfectly happy with the graphics, I've played Dwarf Fortress (in fortress mode - I think the city building overcomes my lack of desire for fantasy) and use Vim all day at work :)

Thanks for your explanation, and yeah I'll think I'll give FTL a go!

Be careful, FTL is very addictive :)

Incidentally FTL was funded (at least partially) by a Kickstarter they did in early 2012. It ended up being one of the biggest PC games of 2012.

They are a bit tricky to get. And OP's game probably doesn't quite have the hook that will make you get them. As far as I can see, the draw is that the games are ruthless and kill you over and over again, but they are also ever so slightly different, and always hint at the chance to crack a bit more of the game on the next play, when you have both learned more about the game's tricks and get a new roll of the procedural generation dice. And, if they're done well, they don't waste your time. There should be something that even a veteran player won't just sleepwalk through right through the door.

Just curious, is it the kinds of visuals, or...?

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