Test drive: DC to Boston in a Tesla Model S
money.cnn.com
money.cnn.com
This still doesn't put to rest the expected (but somehow controversial) concerns about lithium battery performance in cold weather. This concern IMO needs to be put to rest if electrics want to break into the mainstream market. Early adopters may be willing to plan judiciously around range and expected weather, but I doubt mainstream consumers will be so forgiving.
Having a car of (somewhat) limited range lose a large chunk of its battery just sitting overnight in a parking lot, in weather that is cold but hardly unusual for the region, is a problem. That both on-board software and human advisers seem poorly prepared to compensate for this is hardly a nail in Tesla's coffin, but does need to be sorted out.
Such a process will of course drain the battery which still achieves the end result of 'can travel less distance on a full charge'.
For an idea what 1500 watts will do, I keep a 400 square foot room with only an R8 (US) ceiling and unheated space below at a 20°F differential to outside with this heater. It can't keep up when it gets too cold out, but my room has about 200 times the surface area of a Tesla battery pack.
Edit: maybe more than 20°F. I just shut it off for the day at °85F inside and 37°F out, so 48°F difference, but it is sunny, so the roof and two walls are warmer than 37°F. Data collection is hard. If only I worked in a uniform spherical room located in empty space…
The explanation of the anecdotes is probably complicated, but I believe that the Tesla chargers monitor the voltage at the input to the car and reduce their current draw to keep a minimum voltage. So if your 120v transformer is a little on the low side (they vary) and maybe you used that 100' 16g extension cord you had handy, and maybe your house was wired when aluminum house wiring seemed like a good idea and that outlet has a bit more resistance between the wire and the terminal screw, you might be getting a lot less than 1500 watts. There could well be a point in the charging curves where there is a problem, but I don't think it is because 1500 watts isn't enough.
Tesla's other challenge, i suspect, will be really hot spread out places like parts of Australia.
2010 = 44 / 2011 = 51
Source: http://www.auto-i-dat.ch/download/fahrzeugmarkt/Schweizer_Fa...
According to a media release from July 27, 2012, Tesla counted more than 130 Tesla cars in Switzerland:
http://www.presseportal.ch/de/pm/100020821/100722406/tesla-b...
Source: Statistics Norway[1], the official state agency for everything statistics.
Compared to say ~300,000 registered Toyotas (2011), I guess it depends on how you define "big" :)
But we do have a somewhat sizeable enthusiast "electric car" community. We deal with the cold by plugging in whenever possible, and most electric cars are used only for local transport.
There's apparently two Tesla S in Norway at the moment. It has generated interest here as well, and we have articles like "How to charge the Tesla Model S" [2] on a site that translates to "charging-stations.no",
[1] http://statbank.ssb.no/statistikkbanken/Default_FR.asp?PXSid...
[2] http://www.ladestasjoner.no/nyheter/75-hvordan-kan-tesla-mod...
Does the Tesla not do that (yet)?
NB: Tesla claims you don't have to plug in overnight. Whatever other problems the NYT reviewer had, he wasn't cheating by leaving it unplugged overnight.
I had to wait about a week for the weather to warm up before the glow-plugs were enough to start it.
However, I believe a Tesla is a different case. I always keep my car's fuel tank above half-filled to preserve the fuel filter (and you should too). While the Tesla might lose some charge during the day in a parking lot or overnight, I can't imagine it would be a seriously substantial amount.
Modern glow plugs are also much better. In my VW TDI, at 10F the glow plug cycle is only about 3 seconds, and then it fires right up. No glow plugs need at all above 35F.
Thousands of schoolchildren were quite happy, though.
If it's so hard to get cold temperatures in the States, just send one unit up here a few miles North to Canada, we'll be back in the -20C during the week.
What I don't get about any of this, from both sides, is that this is the early days of the technology and its clearly work in progress. As usual, early adopters pretty much know what they are investing in and expect and accept that there are going to be problems and that the systems are far from perfect. I mean, imagine a review of the first petrol engined cars, a few years after initial conception. Musk should be constantly reminding people that problems will happen, and this is the beginning of decades of development and evolution, while motoring petrol head journalists need to stop trying to pretend Musk is selling a perfect petrol car replacement, and that it is indeed work in progress at a relatively early stage.
To me it is clear that the Tesla car is still problematic, but it is also clear that its improving at a decent rate. In a decade, I imagine the whole system will work flawlessly, ish.
Sadly all I see are two camps, Musk supporters and petrol heads almost raging at each other like political parties, while Musk stirs it, resulting in non partisan parties look on aghast, keeping wallets well closed.
As for the idea that this CNN review, just after a controversial one, would be anything other than perfect is a delusion. Even if we bin foil hat theories that CNN were soft on Tesla for what ever reason, Tesla would have done everything to ensure this test went perfectly and contradicted the previous one. What ever we are up to, if a test goes wrong, we would all make sure the next test was an improvement. If not, then we have no business in any form of development.
Childish really is the best word for it.
It wasn't a measured, intelligent response. It came across as a "beat the journalist up" because they posted a bad review. Reminds me of the sort of thing you see bad restaurant owners do when they respond to diner's complaints.
I disagree completely -- a better analogy would be that a restaurant owner gets pissed off because the reviewer complains of a fly in his soup when circuit cameras reveal this was never the case.
It wasn't that Broder simply disliked the car. Musk felt he had falsified data to make Tesla look bad.
It will make some people rally to his cause more, and it will turn some people off (likely the ones who wouldn't buy the cars anyway).
If you wanted to criticise the response you could call it cynical, but I think you'll agree that's a long way from being childish.
Are we forgetting the data from the NYT review clearly showed Broder driving around in circles in a car park? The CNN reporter even said he got lost and yet still made it with miles to spare in the batteries. When you consider the amount of on-board power drawing computing functionality, sensors and logging equipment on the Tesla 200+ miles is impressive.
If you're buying an electric car for driving 200+ miles in one go, an electric car is certainly not for you. Tesla fills a niche of drivers who commute to and from work, occasionally to meetings and maybe the airport but don't expect luxury taxi service companies to start buying and driving Tesla electric cars any time soon...
Quite personally I am sick of hearing about this whole situation. It's like watching a primary school fight, lots of name calling and accusation slinging, but no violence.
The niche is in the price, not the use case, because you're describing what about 80% of the population does with their cars 95% of the time.
It didn't. It showed him driving .6mi after exiting the highway but there is no proof that he was driving around in circles in a parking lot.
Let's not start nitpicking, that stop was new for the reporter. He stopped once on the different side of the highway (North bound) and on this side of highway (South bound) the tesla station was in a completely different place.
So yea, it's very plausible that he was looking for it.
http://jalopnik.com/towing-company-the-nyt-tesla-model-s-was...
While that might qualify as "driving in circles", it did not appear to be intentional, and is a valid issue that one might have.
Really, he shouldn't have mentioned that 0.6 miles at all. If 0.6 miles makes the difference in how a car performs, just drop it.
But since Musk thinks this guy was insulting his baby, the 0.6 miles (in _circles_!) looks sinister to him.
Yeah, if you need long range, don't play with electricity.
This is more of a PR move - of course if you calculate it out it's possible - the NY Times driver wasn't staying at SuperChargers long at all and missed mark by 30mi.
"Instead, I found myself maneuvering around slower cars. Now, I normally spend most of my time on the New Jersey Turnpike out in the left lane going at least 10 or 15 miles an hour faster than I was in the Model S. But sitting in the middle lane, I was keeping up with traffic. I certainly didn't feel out of place -- except for the fact that I wasn't burning any gasoline."
It's supposed to be a performance car. A proper review should imply hoonage and speeds likely to raise the author's insurance premiums. It shouldn't take the Consumer Reports first impression of the Nissan Leaf as it's model. The Tesla S is not a fucking Prius.
The only thing more dull than hypermiling stories are hypermiling videos, and the only saving grace of this story is that we are spared those.
How Musk can act incredulous over assertions that the Model S is impractical for US intercity travel while acknowleding one hour fuelings every three hours is beyond me.
Bingo.
Does using a "Supercharger" stress the battery?
I love speed as much as the next guy; but this was a review that, as far as I could gather, was CNN's version of peer reviewing the Time's article... and finding it wanting. A normal person isn't taking their car to the track. TopGear already did that test on an even more suited car. If you were testing the range of a Bugatti Veyron to see if it was useful as a commuter car, would you go flat out the whole way? Or, more realistically, if you were testing a Subaru WRX STi, or an Evo X, for its "normal driving conditions" range, would you be keeping your revs at 4-5k the whole way?
Wanting to go 80 on the NJT isn't "taking it to the track", it's "driving from A to B".
I have to honestly say the Model S is very, very low on my list of cars-I-wish-I-had. It screams conspicuous and vapid consumption to the nth degree.
Unlike, say, gas-guzzling SUVs.
The emphasized part makes no sense (vs. driving at constant speed), regen braking is not perpetual motion machine. Technology reporter should know that. Still amazing how such a foolish advice was given him by Tesla personnel.
And I would say the secondary failure is in the advice given to Broder over the phone.
Had the people on the phone just told him to charge longer, anything Broder said about the extra time charging would have come across as a simple, forgettable nitpick. It's extraordinary events like getting stranded that readers remember.
I would have thought that slow, stop-start traffic is the ideal conditions for an electric car, both in terms of driving pleasure and energy use compared with traditional cars.
Let's see Teslas commuting to work in arctic midnight.
Of course there may be a reason I'm not in PR.
Will anyone be able to do this drive, under any conditions, in a Model S with batteries that are 2, 5 or 10 years old?
What's the point of having a car that costs north of $50K and as much as $90K if you have to worry about missing an exit? This whole thing is bad press for Tesla, they thought they had the "gotcha" moment ("he went in circles in the parking lot" for a whopping.......0.6 miles while trying to find the charging station) but it just showed a prospective buyer how fragile this very expensive car.
Let me repeat it: this car is very expensive and cannot be relied to go for a few hundred miles because it has so many variables. This is a niche car at best, a rich person maybe can brag about it while having other normal cars.
Hybrids would probably be best for me.
Being able to periodically ferry it between locations using the supercharger would just be a bonus; I'd be fine with a car which could never leave a 75 mile radius of Palo Alto, provided I also either had a second car (ideally diesel, 45+mpg or a diesel truck), or could rent one whenever I left.
I suspect most people who can afford $100k cars can afford multiple cars, or don't do 400 mile road trips on a regular basis.
You can exit and drive a few miles into a town to find a gas station and fill up in 2 minutes. If you filled your tank you know what you have inside, it will not drop due to temperature (relatively speaking)
A tow truck can ultimately bring you gasoline.
All these things rule the electric car out for me and many others, unless I am worth $20 million and buy one as a third car. I'd be scared of running out of power all the time.
Yes, for the record even with GPS I got lost.