A LadyCoders Attendee: Learning To Code Isn't Enough To Get The Job | Hacker News Reader

A LadyCoders Attendee: Learning To Code Isn't Enough To Get The Job

ladycoders.com

25 pointstarahmarie22 comments

"Learning to code" feels like a very amorphous and vague notion. Does it mean knowing iterators and for-loops? Integrating 2 web APIs? Building a compiler?

Speaking for myself : I know how to code, in the sense that I know how to write computer programs. However, it's certainly not enough to get hired as a computer programmer. The problem isn't my lack of presentation, it's a lack of knowledge. This may be the case for others as well.

Pretty close to my sentiment with the uprise in "<blah blah blah> learn to code".

'Code' is just logic. Its not hard to learn. What is hard to learn is how to translate ideas into a programming language, or better yet, into a <i>system</i>.

C0d1ng 15 3Z, designing and developing a system to efficiently and effectively perform a task is hard.

The author went to one of the coding bootcamps, so that's the context for this article. I haven't been to one, but I doubt they have time to get into computer science so much as coding.

I know how to code, in the sense that I know how to write computer programs. However, it's certainly not enough to get hired as a computer programmer.

I disagree. In today's job market, if you can code, you can get hired as a computer programmer. Are https://github.com/arn-e and http://a-rne.tumblr.com/ your work? (From your profile.) If so, you should definitely be able to get hired as a programmer. If you don't believe me, contact me at my HN username at gmail, and I can help you out.

Then why do so many women say they keep getting tracked out of software development jobs?

I don't think anyone can actually answer that, since it's anecdotal.

For the record, I'm a dude (in case there was any confusion given the context of this thread). Obviously, gender discrimination does not apply in my case.

Appreciate the generous feedback & offer, lacker. The blog & GH are in fact mine.

The reason I posted this was to show that the people who want and need to come to our seminars are people who already know how to code, but don't know how to get jobs in tech.

You can learn about our seminars here: http://ladycoders.com/about-us/about-our-seminars/

You can register for seminars here: http://ladycoders.com/event-registration/

You can also see some of the nice and nasty things people have said about us here:

Huffington Post: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/cassie-slane/who-knew-helping-...

CBS Radio: http://kiroradio.com/874/2194952/LadyCoders-Helping-Ladies-S...

Or here: http://ladycoders.com/as-seen-on/

This is a great story by one of our attendees talking about how learning to code wasn't enough to help her actually get jobs. She still had to learn to speak confidently about her skills.

It's not just that. You also have to "decode" whatever signaling people are unconsciously looking for. Or, to put it another way, the prospective employers are going to be prejudiced in some way shape or form. (And they'll be in denial about it.)

This doesn't make the employers bad. This just makes them human. I just really wish more humans realized all of the above.

These are unconscious social biases. Men are not evil for not hiring women when they don't understand the style of communication being used. When women are hesitant explaining the gaps in their resumes from childcare, or don't have any confidence answering questions, it's hard to blame men for going with someone they see as confident.

Great to see LadyCoders getting more attention here on HN. From my time working with awesome women in startups and in a big tech shop it seemed like this was always a challenge given social norms. That's why I backed LadyCoders on kickstarter and I can't wait to see how they keep growing.

Thanks for supporting women in tech.

Is anybody against women in tech? Serious question, I'm all for anyone who wants to learn how to program, regardless of gender or age, and I can't imagine anyone not supporting it.

Also: Hey Tarah! Just saw this was you. Great job with LadyCoders, I hope it gets even better.

I think the majority of people are not against women in tech.

Most of the issues are fairly unconscious bias. Some people just assume women aren't as good at tech jobs as men are. Some people assume pretty women are stupid. Some people are simply uncomfortable around women, so don't put themselves into a position where they will be around them.

Issues with actually getting women into tech jobs range from their manner of speech (for example, raising their voices at the end of sentences) to being overly modest about their job skills.

Hmm, that's interesting, I would never have guessed that the manner of speech is something that might need improvement. I guess the points you mentioned apply to any job (and probably gender), though.

There are assumptions that are made of certain speaking patterns. The voice tonal thing makes it sound like everything is a question.

"I think I would be a great fit for this company?"

To add to this, I know that when I'm nervous I smile a lot and laugh to try to ease my own tension, so I can understand how an interviewer would take that as being naïve or not serious about the role, when it's really just a case of anxiety mixed with imposter syndrome.

Ohai, Stavros! Thanks!

I wish this article mentioned more information about LadyCoders. I feel like it lead up to the point "go to a LadyCoders seminar" without explaining much about what LadyCoders is. Guess I'll just have to do my own research.

I'm happy to answer your questions here in the comments. I am one of the LadyCoders; my name is Tarah Wheeler Van Vlack. LadyCoders is an initiative that puts on seminars and provides mentorship for programmers (often women) who find that they're having problems getting jobs in tech. Women often suffer from Impostor Syndrome. That frequently manifests itself as the inability to be confident about their skills in front of technical interviewers.

Do you guys ever consider getting involved with University Computer Science programs?

I went to this extremely depressing "females in computer science" sort of mentoring meeting today and all of the women holding it essentially conveyed the idea "don't go into industry (got to grad school), they will eat you alive since you're a woman." it was horrid to hear this from other women. I'm glad to see that not everyone agrees with that.

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