German Fascination With Degrees Claims Latest Victim: Education Minister | Hacker News Reader

German Fascination With Degrees Claims Latest Victim: Education Minister

nytimes.com

99 pointsclbrook87 comments

> Many Germans believe the scandals are rooted in their abiding respect, and even lust, for academic accolades, including the use of Prof. before Dr. and occasionally Dr. DR. for those with two doctoral degrees.

> Prof. Dr. Wanka got her doctorate in 1980, the same year as Dr. Schavan.

While the title-compounding effect did strike me as comical, this did force me to reflect a bit on our own worship of pedigree. Anyone who's spent any time on Angel List has undoubtedly been treated to "founders from stanford & MIT", "started by Berkeley students", "MBA from Chicago", etc.

These are, of course, almost apples and oranges (double-doctorates vs undergrad / masters), but credentialing is certainly alive and well here in the US. Scott Thompson @ yahoo is a particularly recent public example.

Good point. For decades the education system in Germany tried to eradicate differences between universities. For the longest time there was also no separate bachelors degree. Getting a doctorate was therefore the only way to distinguish yourself from the student masses. This has changed in the past years after the "Bologna reforms" have replaced the German diploma by the international bachelors/masters system and since the "excellence initiative" has given "elite" predicated to some of the German universities. Ironically this initiative was governed by the education department, headed by Mrs. Dr. mult. Annette Schavan.

Let me delve into the speculation about culture a bit more: Back in the day of the emperors/kings, titles and medals were were an extremely cheap way of rewarding somebody without actually paying them. What this incentive system needed to work was a society that respected those titles, so you were and and even today are allowed to use those titles (examples: http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nichtakademischer_Titel). This attitude was probably transferred to academic titles at some point.

In Austria, which has even more artifacts of its imperial time, this title-mania was followed so diligently that even the wife of the doctor was called Frau Doctor until a few decades ago. Also, every academic title at least equivalent to a master's degree is still used with your name in any formal dealings (they will call somebody up as Frau Magister Maier in a waiting room etc.). In Germany, they do this only with PhDs, so there is Herr Doktor but not Herr Diplom Psychologe.

Judging from the mini-bios of authors on books, though, the Germans seem as title-crazy as Austrians. The guy who cannot call himself "Diplom Psychologe Hans Maier" on the title page of the book will almost certainly start his bio with "Hans Maier is Diplom Psychologe ..." because this way, he is only describing academic achievement (OK) and not using it as a title (not OK). So people who worry about status love titles but can only actually use anything from a PhD upwards with their names. Go figure...

Strictly speaking, in Germany you don't use the PhD (Dr.) with your name, you just use your full name. Getting a "Dr." is a name change, while getting a diploma or masters degree is not.

Strictly speaking, it's not. You can write your PhD in your passport (only in the long form, like "Dr. med.") in a separate field, but you don't have to, and it won't be part of your name anyway.

Source: http://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/pa_g_1986/__4.html [Law in German]

Then why does my German national id card have the text "Dr. Hars" (short form, without the "rer. nat.") in the field with the label "Name/Surname/Nom"?

Maybe because it is more efficient than reserving space on the card for something most people do not need?

http://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/pa_g_1986/__4.html

Reminds me of the MIT Dean of Admissions scandal (she faked a degree on her resume): http://www.thecrimson.com/article/2007/4/26/mit-admissions-d...

Not to speak of the incredible levels of debt people are ready to incur for that degree. It can't be that bit of additional support a university setting will provide compared to self study.

Ummmm Education Minister who (allegedly) cheated at university forced to step down.

Don't really see that as a "Fascination With Degrees"

Might have been a interesting topic, but it's a hopeless segue.

Yes, the title is quite misleading. While there are a few people who pursue a PhD purely for its status, this was probably not the case for Annette Schavan.

I don't know if my experiment is valid but looking at the collected business cards (~1200) from the past years. 90% of the business cards with Ing, Prof titles and alike are mainly from Germany. Looking at the German wikipedia page about Academic degrees http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Akademischer_Grad compared to the other languages. I don't know if they run for its status but at least they showed those titles on their business cards.

It might be interresting for Ken Robinson to make some seminar in Germany about his point regarding academicism.

I once read an opinion piece in a British engineering journal that suggested one of the reasons Germany is such an engineering powerhouse is in Germany 'engineer' is roughly equivalent in status to 'doctor' while in the UK it's conflated with 'mechanic/repair man' or at best 'office worker'.

Yeah, this wasn’t really about her title. I’m not even aware of her ever using it in public, the media certainly didn’t.

That said, the German system is broken and needs to be fixed. I think that part of the discussion is probably the most useful one - but I don’t see it going anywhere.

The former head of the Toronto District School Board Chris Spence recently had to resign after a spate of criticism over plagiarism in newspaper articles he had written for the local paper. Then plagiarism was found in his University of Toronto doctoral thesis. So it's just not a German thing. Maybe more interesting is how much easier it is now to find plagiarism.

Yes, the Germans value degrees.

But Ms Shavan having to step back has nothing to do with that. This is not about her degree, this is about her having cheated. The Germans are very sensitive in this regard. A few years ago, a minister got into serious trouble because he used the frequent flier miles obtained as a minister for a private flight.

This whole discussion reminds me of Kurt Vonnegut's Player Piano. Sadly no such reference has been made yet. Maybe that's because not a lot of Germans have read it. Anyway, it sheds the whole discussion in a new light. The person in charge of education and research should not plagiarize, no doubt, but in general, if a person proves consistently that they can do their job, isn't the degree system that's supposed to determine who is able to do a particular job a little too rigid and deserves to be undermined? On the other hand there's the real hard work of those who don't cheat, and they'll demand justice. A difficult problem.

[ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Player_Piano_%28novel%29 , not part of the half dozen KV books I've read either ]

I'd also guess it's not the ability to the the job that's in question, it's the will to do it ethically.

Would you trust the work of someone who's known to cut corners in order to declare the job done?

Sure. Sometimes it beats the alternative.

The issue here is not primarily that the minister for education and science should have a PhD.

The scandal here is that Annette Schavan claims that she did not plagiarize when it is obvious that she did. When the university rescinded her doctorate, she announced to sue it. A minister who is unable to accept a university's (rightful) decision undermines their independence.

For me, the most egregious part of this affair was that several officials of big research organizations - who get a majority of their budget from the federal ministry - defended Schavan and attacked the university.

if a person proves consistently that they can do their job

What if the opposite is the case? Humboldt said education is so important, the whole nation has to support it by paying taxes. Now? Elite universities, university fees. Not her fault alone, but also not something she resisted a whole lot, right? Hence I claim a shitty job, and how she can be called a "victim" is beyond me; good riddance I say, pity the next one will likely be just as bad and in the pockets of her handlers.

The German hierarchy in academia is unbelievable. Few years back I moved from a federal lab in California to a state lab in Germany. I felt abashed at the extravagant praise of the head professor there.

Also, the Prof. Dr. thing on business cards used to make me laugh, until I could grasp the whole system, and how detrimental it was for students (high pressure, never ending hierarchy, blind worship, ...).

This hugely depends on the field of research and the individual research groups. Medicine is traditionally very hierarchical - mathematics or computer science not so.

Could you elaborate on the detrimental effects?

sure, I refer to computer science btw.

Detrimental effects that I could witness: - Prof. are secured in their large offices, hard to get in touch with. This leads to useless work or idle students, waiting for feedback, or picking up the wrong problem, solution or conference. - Full dependency on the Prof (e.g. for funding, to get a position, ...) - Students don't voice their concern much, as they need Prof. support.

Don't get me wrong, overall, the system works, and the same observations could be made elsewhere as well (e.g. France, US, ...). Although I'd say the magnitude differs.

With colleagues, we used to make this joke that a 'deadline' in the US would always be slowly pushed back until the project can be stamped as a success (best for everyone, motivates teams, etc...) whereas in Germany the deadline is so deadly that the team hits the wall and leaves blood strains on it, until the next deadline comes up :)

Well, the current funding systems in many countries naturally result in Prof's being unaccessible, and it has nothing to do with the offices. A well respected researcher (at the time working in Germany IIRC) told me "Professor's here don't have time to write research papers, they write grant proposals".

The Germans may lust after advanced degrees, but we Americans might not want to call the kettle black -- it's well-established that we struggle to acquire Ph.D. degrees even though, on average, this choice produces a decline in income and employment compared to a "professional" degree:

http://www.bls.gov/emp/ep_chart_001.htm

"“I just think that many Germans have a police gene in their genetic makeup,”"

Lol, discussion Godwin'ed by the OP itself - the NYT, no less.

Well, I'm living in Germany and I'm inclined to side with the NYT on this.

Oh I realize all too well - I lived and worked in Germany some time ago too, and only a few weeks into the job I was scolded for not putting dr and prof into the field on the signup page where people could enter how they wanted to be addressed. To be fair, the marketing guys were right on that one, me leaving it out was my youthful arrogance - the same disdain for honorifics that is being displayed in the article, actually.

Anyway, I wasn't so much saying that the article is wrong as that the snide tone of the remark came across as somewhat unbecoming of a purportedly 'serious' publication as the NYT.

I think our discussion focused on the degrees themselves misses the point. What we see here is plain dishonest conduct. Not having a PhD is acceptable. Plagiarism is not - and shouldn't be.

I don't think that Germans have a "Title-fetish", in general they couldn't care less. I'm working in engineering, having a Physics PhD myself, but titles are never mentioned in daily work.

Politicians on the other hand had always tried to give themselves some additinal credibility by bragging about their alleged academic merits, but searching for plagiatism was not something anyone would seriously had thought to endanger politicians careers.

I mean, it was fun to try and hunt down politicians theses but hardly would have anyone expected that a politician could loose his mandate over them. Furthermore these theses most often had been written in "the old days", and were available only on special request from a few libraries where they were collecting dust for years in some non-publicly-accessible storage room for books no one ever borrows.

But then came Karl Theodor zu Guttenberg, whose thesis (written just 2007) started the whole debate about misgotten degrees in 2011. He had dismissed all charges about having cheated with unprecedented arrogance. Even though claiming to live up to higher standards, himself being a whealthy aristocrat, he had wholesale-copy-pasted the whole work from undisclosed sources, some even produced by the parliament's research service for him.

By additionally handling the resulting public-relations disaster pretty inapt, he gave a unbelieveably strong boost to the plagiatism-finders, who normally would have been ridiculed as nickpicking footnote and quotation-mark-counters. Now they were the judges for the integrity of a large number of public persons.

Anette Schavan is only one of many persons accused of copying a relatively few paragraphs in her thesis, not even on the same scale as Karl-Theodor, this theses would never have created the current public outcry if not preceeded by Karl-Theodor's.

And she's even defended by a lot of academics that claim that this amount of un-disclosed copying, 30 years ago, would be on a level that's would not warrant the whole process that has now started and led to her demissal. I mean, she probably has written that manuscript on a mechanical typewriter, with drafts written by hand, not assisted by a software marking handling quotations automatically!

But universities are under a high pressure to show a merciless approach in re-evaluating these theses, and unfortunately there isn't even a limitation-period after which given titles would be incontestable, and hence what appears to be the current obsession with titles in Germany.

-- References :-)

- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karl-Theodor_zu_Guttenberg#Doct...

- The "Guttenplag" wiki has a graph (and statistics): 94% of pages, 64% of lines have copies of foreign text without attribution: http://de.guttenplag.wikia.com/wiki/GuttenPlag_Wiki

- This side shows pages in red that contain foreign material without attribution: http://schavanplag.wordpress.com/

My own feeling is that Germans guard quite strongly their societal and cultural goods; advanced degrees are a status indicator and it's not a surprise that incorrectly-gained degrees cause outrage to me. Perceived pollution in the shared consciousness inevitably causes punishment and expulsion.

Other ways in which Germans guard their societal structure:

-- highly regulated Sunday opening hours, even in big cities, ostensibly to protect low status workers.

-- strong rules regarding jay walking; it's the only country where other pedestrians got upset with me for crossing the street incorrectly.

-- strict adherence to rules and procedures in aspects of life that most cultures don't care about (clear your sidewalk of snow and ride your bicycle only on the correct side of the sidewalk, for example).

-- strict adherence to a close family model that promotes appropriate education, shared meals and shared community endeavours.

All these things make up a strong societal structure (if a little inflexible). I believe that there is a national desire for a straightforward, trustworthy communal structure. The 'obsession with titles' is simply a facet of the desire for a strong shared community which can act as a basis for a productive society. If people assume titles that they do not deserve then they reduce the quality of societal markers, make communal life more difficult and thus reduce productivity and progress. Add that to the somewhat natural tendency to tear apart any person of previously high societal status, and you have the current climate of Germans checking all advanced degrees (and to an extent, the British checking all the expenses claims of their own politicians).

Not very good examples:

--When someone falls in front of your house it is your responsibility (not an 'act of god' as it says in english law) - you can get sued for that.

--As an adult you can't ride on the sidewalks - if you want to, that particular piece of sidewalk has to be marked as a bicycle path (which makes sense considering the high difference in speed between pedestrians and cyclists). In reality nobody cares about bicycle paths so you get an obstacle course of trash cans, cars (and their doors) and pedestrians...

Your first point basically matches mine - in a lot of other countries, it is an act of God. Only in central European countries is it considered to be the responsibility of the home owner. After all, if you don't have power over that sidewalk, why should you have responsibility over it? Unless, of course, it works out as best for the society...

Germany has something like the absolute best set of bicycle lanes of any country in the world, with the possible exception of the low countries. That you are still unhappy about the way that people treat them is a very strong indication of my point ;-) Come look at the bike lanes in Spain, France, the US or the UK, instead.

In USA it is also your responsibility. No, it is not an act of GOD for the simple fact that the fall a lot of times is caused by a damaged sidewalk. Fixing up the sidewalk is always the owner's responsibility. At least that is the case in New York City.

Chicago too. And the landowner can also be be ticketed by the police for not clearing his snow.

It seems like the OP is from Scotland, where snow rarely falls and when it does, it doesn't stick around. I wonder if snow removal laws are more a matter of climate than culture.

Yeah as a Canadian, pretty much all cities can fine you if you don't clear your snow with in 24 hours. Ironically I just got back to Canada from Dresden yesterday and I didn't think much of the German efforts to clear their sidewalks.

So what happens if you're out of town for a few months and it snows hard in front of your property? How are you supposed to deal with that, or even know how badly it's snowed, while you're away?

You simply commission a company for doing that... In the countryside neighbours might help each other

my prediction about you: You have only ever been to south germany

Nope, lived in Hamburg for 3 years and lived in Berlin for 3 months. In fact, southern Germany is the part of the country that I know the least! ;-)

Weird. I've lived in Hamburg all my life and I've yet to see anybody be scorned for jaywalking. The same basically goes for family models, I've been to more homes where everyone just sort of does their own thing than I've been to homes where the family gathers round at a table and eats together, although that one definitely is also not a rarity. Is it elsewhere?

I once got shouted at by a man on Osdorfer Weg for crossing against the red man. I've also had that near U-Bahn Schlump and in Berlin, despite there having been no traffic in sight. Never anywhere else though.

I've found more strong family and friendship units in Germany than in the UK, Australia or the US. I've also found that people are less mobile within Germany than other places, perhaps in part due to the cost of changing accommodation - although that may be a European thing, as opposed to just a German thing.

Of course, these are all simple anecdotes and worth what you paid for them. My feelings about Germany are that it's a great country, and one I like very much. But it does have a very distinct character (similar to southern England in some senses!) and from that, the outrage about politicians faking academic titles is not a surprise.

I got honked at several times in Hamburg for riding my bike in the street instead of the horrible sidewalk bike lane next to it. But I get that occasionally here in the US where the street is the lawful place for the bicyclist to be, so maybe it's more a matter of road rage than a Teutonic sense of order.

From what I understand from German friends you need a certificate from an "office management" school to do secretarial work. There are internships for the most mundane jobs. Not to attack, but as an outsider it certainly seems to me that Germany (as a generalization and especially outside the software industry) has a title fetish.

No. Having a certificate is helpful but not required. For office management and several other jobs you have the choice between attending a specialized school or doing an apprenticeship in conjunction with attending a vocational school [1].

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dual_education_system

That's what I mean, going to school for a secretarial job while not getting paid/having a very limited pay for a part time job in the background. Same with other low tire positions - beginning sales person, etc.

Alternative: gain valuable job experience from day 1 (ok, maybe week 2 after a short local training) and be fired after 3 months if you're unsuccessful and showing no potential. Unheard of in (non-Eastern) Europe.

[/rant] :)

It is not title fetishism, it is quality control and it is very good. This means that when you want to have someone working for you, you can be ensured the person as the adequate formation. I am French, having spent a couple of years now in Germany, some in Denmark and before some times in the US, I can tell you this is wonderful. If you need someone to fix something in your house, you can be sure he knows about it. Not like in the US where the guy was turning steaks at McDo before and just happen to now do plumbing for a small company because "He did well at the interview".

This level of "quality control" is everywhere in the German society.

For the titles themselves, this comes from the general German culture, I heavily recommend "The German Genius" by Peter Watson to understand it a bit more:

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/07/18/books/review/Ladd-t.html?p...

http://www.amazon.de/German-Genius-Renaissance-Scientific-Re...

As a customer, sometimes I need the guy who can do a cheap job on an easy task. Sometimes I'll spend more to get someone with a more proven record (i.e. from a rating service or an agency or recommendations) for the more critical tasks.

As a worker, I would like the opportunity to switch careers/find my way without having to take multi-year training courses for every possible job.

Same about products: sometimes all I need is a cheap drill from Walmart and not an expensive Bosch one that would last me a lifetime.

I can't read the articles right now, but I've seen the book in Germany and it did look interesting! :-)

Well if you need real cheap plumbing, you can still hire some eastern European guy and pay him cash. But quality control is your problem then and god forbid if you house is flooded after you come back from a weekend trip...

I live in Germany and I claim that Austria (Germany's neighbouring country) has a title fetish. Austria's title fetish is said to be a relict from Austro-Hungarian Monarchy times that has preserved there until today (although it is declining slowly).

To give an example: on many tombstones on Austrian graveyards the official titles the person had are written; even more strange: for women even the title of their men is implied in the title on their tomb stones (for example: "Oberamtsratsgattin" (I really find this word funny) - a word that cannot really expressed in English for a lack of words for official titles; I'd translate it clumsily with "wife of a man that was a public official with the official title "Oberamtsrat" [a rather respected official title]")

So if you claim Germans have a title fetish, go to Austria. When you come back, you'll consider Germany a really-not-title-obsessed contry.

While your observations are definitely true for the "older" generations (the ones for which many tombstones had to be carved), I'd say that title fetish is fortunately declining quite rapidly.

For example, not so long ago it was common to call wifes of doctors "Frau Doktor", but I've never in my life heard a person < 60 years saying that to the wife of a doctor.

Granted, there are still some strange titles floating around which do not mean much, but they're also fading away quickly. And even though many people may hold a title, my personal observation is that they're shown only very rarely.

So while Austrians had a strong title fetish, I wouldn't say that's neccessarily true anymore. Especially not for the upcoming generations. So don't expect too much title fetish in Austria, you might be disappointed. But be sure to visit the "Zentralfriedhof" in Vienna, it's one of the largest cemeteries in the world and walking through it is a wonderful journey through the past, packed with a plethora of stories.

You do not need a certificate or education to do office work. In fact, the German employment agency specifically points to office work as a type of job where it's easiest to find employment without prior education [1].

It can be difficult to find competitive jobs without a tertiary education (college or apprenticeship). But that has little to do with a title fetish and much with the fact that tertiary education is heavily subsidized (both college and apprenticeships), so the vast majority of Germans have one. Note in particular that German apprenticeships are not internships; they are accredited forms of education in the dual system [2].

Without such an education, you will almost always compete against a person who has it, so even though it may not be strictly needed, it may be difficult to impossible to get a job without one (especially in jobs that do require experience or training).

That's not to say that forms of rent-seeking do not occur within this system, but they generally occur at higher levels of qualification (such as requiring a "Meister" -- not to be confused with a master's degree -- to run certain kinds of businesses).

[1] http://www.arbeitsagentur.de/nn_419854/Navigation/zentral/Ve...

[2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dual_education_system

Isn't the professional title on german ID cards?

If you want, you can have your academic titles added when you apply for a renewed ID card, but it's neither required, automatic or free :-)!

Only a Ph.D./M.D. is, because it counts as part of your actual name.

Germans definitely have a title fetish. So do Austrians, to a slightly lesser degree. For example, titles go on driver's licenses. They certainly do not in the US.

If you use the title "Prof" or "Doktor" when making a restaurant reservation, or getting pulled over for speeding, chances are very good you will get a better table, or escape without a ticket. The word that comes to mind for the stories I've heard from Dr. Dr's in Austria is "boot-licking."

Also, "Dr Dr" is a thing. My mother-in-law is one and people really say it to her, religiously, and not because she is a prima donna about it.

Don't forget, it's illegal in Germany for an American PhD to call himself "Dr" (and not talking about practicing medicine either). People have gotten into serious trouble because of this: http://chronicle.com/article/Whats-Up-Doc-German-Law/40636/

In America, the government officials responsible for that would be laughed out of town.

Also americans just don't value Intellectuals/Education/Intelligence as much.

1. Once Germany was a leading intellectual, scientific, and engineering powerhouse. Academic titles still have some cultural significance. It might be a kind of a relict.

2. It's worse in Austria.

they even adress you as Herr Magister, not only Dr. :D

Magister is Austria not Germany

"Magister" is also a German academic title (that was not uncommon in Germany before the Bologna reform to graduate in especially in humane disciplines). But it's only common to adress someone as "Herr Magister" in Austria.

No it does exist in Germany too, my mum has one.

It exists in Georgia as well, and it is equivalent of Masters degree.

Although, it is not used as title - maybe because it would sound much cooler than Dr. :)

> 1. Once Germany was a leading intellectual, scientific, and engineering powerhouse. Academic titles still have some cultural significance. It might be a kind of a relict.

Why past tense? It still is a powerhouse, especially in engineering.

How is it that such dishonest people become leaders in our countries? I would expect those leading my country to at least have some integrity!

> I would expect those leading my country to at least have some integrity!

You want people with integrity to run for public office? Isn't that a contradiction in terms? I'm not speaking of the appearance of personal integrity, something that can be manufactured, I'm speaking of real integrity.

"It's not what you are, but what people think you are that is important." -- Joe Kennedy

Me too. And I would wish that those people had real integrity.

That is perhaps a little naive. People attracted by power (i.e., power over other people's lives) are by definition not saints. Expect most of them to be sociopaths, and your expectations would be closer to reality.

I guess it's the old saying of absolute power corrupts absolutely. It is very sad though!

“title arousal.”

If the Germans had a fascination with degrees, they wouldn't have Mercedes engineers without a university degree http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-16159943

Thats a different thing. The Apprenticeship programs in germany are very popular in the whole range of sectors. You basically train on the job in a company for 3 years earning a minimum wage and have to go to school for about 1/3rd of that time. At the end your company might offer you a full time job. However this kind of education is very practical, not too much theory, so the guys at mercedes for example are more like mechanics that assemble the cars. Its still a very good and highly regarded education, but the real engineers at mercedes have studied Engineering and have university degree.

Same goes for IT, you can do basic apprenticeships for programming or system administration, but its far less theoretical than studying computer science at the university. Still many people do it, because for being a programmer its mostly enough basic knowledge and you learn the rest on the job and with experience anyway. But these people will probably not tacke the hardest problems of computer science.

the real engineers

Ok, if the definition of a real engineer is someone with a degree, then there's no argument to have.

This article seems to not mention another important fact for Schavan: If she loses the Doctorate, she will not have any degree whatsoever. The Doctorate is the only degree she ever did, she does not hold a Magister. (→ Grundständige Promotion)

The English wikipedia entry has that added by now, however, it doesn't list any sources...so in that sense:

http://www.heise.de/tp/blogs/8/153683 & http://www.wiwo.de/politik/deutschland/plagiatsaffaere-ohne-...

edit: Also, leave it to a right-wing Prof. Dr. from Munich to call all Germans crypto-fascist because of their degree fixation. Oh, the irony... → https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corps_Rhenania_Freiburg

She will still have a honorary doctorate of 4 universities, so technically she is still Dr.h.c.mult.

Yes, but for any other purpose, she will not have a degree that proves her own qualifications.

Any formal system like that is bad because it's too easy to hack - and that's what they got. Good for America that you don't care much about degrees. After all, a day's long test task is enough to separate good candidates from bad for everything except maybe senior management positions.

If someone chooses to spend several years of her life only in order to get a few letters in front of her name, that's her problem. Meanwhile, the rest of us can get out there and do something productive. Degree obsession is a choice.

Many PhD's I know didn't work on their research for the extra letters on their business cards, but out of a genuine devotion to further our knowledge on their research subjects.

They are academic royalty, however, God did not give them royal divinity, Universities did.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Divine_right_of_kings

Germans place a greater premium on doctorates than Americans do as marks of distinction and erudition. [...] According to the Web site Research in Germany, about 25,000 Germans earn doctorates each year, the most in Europe and about twice the per capita rate of the United States.

Visiting a university in Germany is almost free. More people having a "Diplom" degree means that if you want to stand out you have to aim for a "Doktor". (I use "Diplom" and "Doktor" here since the mentioned fraud-cases stem from a time without bachelors and masters) - that's the easy explanation.

Here in the homeland of schadenfreude, the zeal for unmasking academic frauds also reflects certain Teutonic traits, including a rigid adherence to principle and a know-it-all streak.

I wouldn't subscribe to the word "fetish" but there is a certain "Teutonic Trait" here and the acadmic fraud cases are just one symptom of something deeper.

People in this society, contrary to what many of them claim, feel a deep need for an authority to follow. [...] It's in them to worship authority and to totally rely on it.[...] It makes sense to me that a strong and faithful believer [...], can in his disappointment become so venomous when, as he feels, that authority has failed him. It's this huge disappointment that turns blind obedience into an uncontrolled need for slaughter. - http://www.amazon.com/Sleep-Hitlers-Room-American-ebook/dp/B... (a funny but often stupid book, nonetheless I think here the author has a point on us Germans)

A society, keen for authority, provides a reliable way for elite offspring to fill the upper ranks of politics or public service. Our fraternities are almost always tied to one of the two major political parties (SPD or CDU). While beeing a great asset for students after graduation (Alumni-Network) their main service for that offspring is to use all the dirty tricks to get you your (law) diploma. Since these student bodies are very old and established, they often fill the ranks of the personnel in the universities. They might be the ones doing the evaluation of your thesis. They can provide you with the tests beforehand and even if they can't they usually keep log of every test written by a professor, so they can provide you at least with a good approximation of future tests.

It doesn't wonder that there's an established market for ghostwriters providing you those titles, since you have so many people using that "reliable path to power" that don't seek the academic or professional acceptance at all. Most of Germany's politicians are lawyers and most of them never seen a court from the inside.

For me, this Title-Thing is a teutonic trait but it's not tied to genes but tied to culture. And culture can change. This German Title-Mania is getting less. For instance, you don't have to own a "Meister"-Title to open up certain businesses anymore since recently. How this disposal of the "Meisterpflicht" (allowance to open a business is tied to having a Meister-Title, by law) came upon, though, tells about the difference between Germany and the US: It wasn't a succesful grassroot kind of story, demanding personal/economic freedom, but an order from the EU.

And the sentence "an order from above" sums up pretty much every German right or freedom we were entitled to during our history. That makes us prone to dislinkg "game-changers" because, if you spent time obeying the rules, you won't loose on that investment by letting others take shortcuts. This translates to less career changers than in the US, and a higher stigma if you do. It translates to total absence of entrepreneurs or acclaimed business people from entering a political race, because social envy gives them no cance there. This translates to parts of our Acadamia being a thought free market of status. We don't have an american culture of self-education. And the term "Populärwissenschaft", scientists releasing books for the masses, is considered an insult in German Acadamia.

It makes me wonder why Berlin, in that case, is a relatively popular destination for American businesses when they want to set up shop in Europe. If the pervading attitude in Germany is as you've described, it seems as though Germany wouldn't be a good cultural fit.

Do more Germans have Diplom degrees per capita than North Americans have undergraduate degrees? I was under the impression that more North Americans have undergraduate degrees than Germans Diploms, mainly because the Abitur is the bottleneck. In Canada now it seems everyone and their dog goes to university now.

It depends what types of schools you include. The "Diplom" and "Magister" closely resembles the US master's degree, so their proliferation is lower when comparing to _all_ degrees in other countries. However it has been replaced by BA/BS and MA/MS between 2005 and 2010, so you can expect more BAs to enter the labor market today. http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abitur it states that 43% of an age group get the Abitur, and most of them attend university according to http://www.kmk.org/fileadmin/pdf/PresseUndAktuelles/2011/eag.... That document also states that some 28% of the population get a university (undergratuate/graduate) degree today. On the other hand, more people do apprenticeships in Germany than in other countries (without nessaraily having an Abitur degree), and those apprenticeships are accompanied by classes and an associate degree which can be extended to a "meister" of some sort. Some studies are regarded as apprenticeship that would be taught at colleges in other countries (e.g. patient care). If you add those degrees they make up another 15% of an age group. So in total that's something like 43% which I think would be comparable to US numbers.

The real scandal is that somebody studying catholic theology can become education minister.

A real scandal would be if someone was hounded out of office or blocked from attaining it due to their religious beliefs.

Excuse me, why?

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