Treadmill desks: How practical are they? | Hacker News Reader

Treadmill desks: How practical are they?

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37 pointsdrucken51 comments

I tracked my learning performance over two years under a range of conditions, including trying a treadmill desk. I found at 1.2mph my error rate (compared to sitting) was 50% less, and I could comfortably study for 2x as long. The trick is to keep the speed quite low, and have your PC at a comfortable position. I now do all my work this way, with an adjustable desk, which I put in sitting position only an hour a day.

More details on my experiment are in this talk I gave last year: http://quantifiedself.com/2012/05/jeremy-howard-on-language-...

Are you referring to studying/reading only? I wonder If I m the only one who likes to read on a tablet while wandering around the house at similar speeds.

I only have quantified outcomes for studying flash cards, since that's a fixed measured thing that I do for 70 minutes per day. However I now do nearly all my work at the tread desk, and I've bought a few for some of my staff who also wanted to try them out (everyone who has tried them has liked them and stuck with them full time, so far).

Sometimes however for reading I'll go and relax on a recliner - it's nice to have a break from time to time. But if I want to really focus on what I'm reading, I'll look at it on the tread desk.

How much of an effect does missed sleep have on you?

Huge. When I'm sleepy my error rate can go up by as much as 300%. It's terrifying to think of what that means in terms of how it must be impacting by work when I see that happen. I often study in the morning before work, and if I can see I'm not performing well, I know to do yoga/exercise/etc before I try to do any productive work. (I found that my study outcomes were nearly always better after exercise, if I started badly)

I found something similar when I set up a treadmill desk at 1mph; I had a few years of typing data in Amphetype, I resumed typing practice on the treadmill, and the difference in WPM or error rate was slightly in favor of the treadmill (probably due to practice effect or motivation): http://www.gwern.net/Zeo#fn51

We have a community treadmill desk at Blekko, it's not at all uncomfortable to use. I ended up buying the same treadmill we got for home and find that walking at home while catching up on mail and what not is pretty easy.

Some things I've found;

* Walking in socks results in less foot pain than walking in shoes did.

* If you spend an hour watching TV while you walk you can at least write it off as exercise.

* iPads are great for reading (moves with you when you are holding it) but I've got a bluetooth keyboard on the desk if I want to type.

* If Caprica had chosen some other boogie man other than God it might have made it further as a show.

What treadmill model did you end up using?

Horizon T101, combined benefits of being more reasonably priced and necessary weight capacity.

What are you using for the desk surface? Looks like a good treadmill.

Trekdesk (amazon link: http://www.amazon.com/Trek-TD-01-TrekDesk-Treadmill-Desk/dp/...) at home I just rest stuff on the control panel of the treadmill (the trek desk gives the treadmill a pretty large foot print)

I have been using a treadmill desk at home for a year or so.

I find my feet get sore if I stand still for long, but not when I walk. A speed around 2 km/h works well for me.

It is necessary to have the monitor and keyboard at proper heights, but that is also true of sitting desks. Bad and badly placed monitors and keyboards, and laptops in particular, are an ergonomic disaster either way.

Same here except I've been doing it at work.

I suffer from chronic lower back pain due to a herniated disc, and never has my back felt better since my injury in high school. Sitting is absolutely terrible for it, and standing, while an improvement, leads to poor posture because I found I would lean on a particular leg for too long, and muscles in my back would get unevenly strained.

I walk between 1 and 2 MPH all day long. I find it very easy to do all computer tasks while moving. The only time I stop is when I need to write something down on paper, which I can't even do well at the lowest setting of 0.4 MPH.

It is a bit tiring, but in a very good way. My two "breaks" are sitting down with my team for lunch and then sitting on the couch for a little while after I get home. I did not work my way up slowly as some people recommend; I had been using a standing desk for about a year and I just dove right into the walking because I prefer it to standing even when I'm a little tired.

Out of curiosity, did you try walking in place as an alternative to treadmill? I suppose it's hard to keep going

I made an effort to try to bend my legs with some frequency, but I wouldn't call it "walking in place," nor can I say I was very consistent about it. I'd usually do it for a few minutes, then get deep into a problem, and realize I'd been leaning on a leg for 10 minutes. Rinse and repeat.

A big part of the value of the treadmill for me is that it forces me to always move and bend my legs, which means I never have the opportunity to default to a bad posture. That's the reason why I walk all day every day.

A cheaper alternative I considered was getting a Bongo Board: http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_1?url=search-alias%3D...

I went with a treadmill desk because I thought with the bongo board I could still default into a balanced inanimate position, and because I'm fortunate enough where I could afford a treadmill desk without it being a huge sacrifice for me. But, if that weren't the case, I think the bongo board could be an improvement over standing.

Do you not have an issue with your eyes and wrists going up and down slightly as you walk? It seems the visual issue would be a bit distracting and perhaps the wrist issue lead to more typos?

I want to believe there's a way around this: like a monitor that follows your eyes... I guess it'd have to be worn as goggles

Wrists - not at all. I have the old model of the Lifespan Treadmill desk - check here for a photo: http://www.amazon.com/LifeSpan-TR1200-DT-Treadmill-Desk-Mode...

I rest my elbows on the pad on the front, with my keyboard about a foot forward on the desk. No matter my body's movement, my arms are stable and anchored.

With respect to eyesight, there is mild movement but I don't find it bothersome or difficult. First, it is very mild - maybe an inch or two between steps. Second, it's more of a front-back movement than up-down (remember, this is a walking treadmill, not a running treadmill), so I find it does not at affect my field of vision nor what my eyes are focused on.

I just switched to a sit/stand desk. I'm not ready to go full-treadmill, but it has helped my back. Getting a pad for your feet is crucial, though. I also wrote up my research / materials here: http://goo.gl/JxhMq

I've never done this with a desk, but in my experience, it is much more comfortable to walk for long periods of time than to stand for long periods of time.

>I just switched to a sit/stand desk.

I did this too: http://jseliger.wordpress.com/2012/09/23/the-geekdesk-writin... and went with a Geekdesk, which seemed to have the best combination of price / features. I haven't tracked the numbers, but I estimate that I work standing about 60% of the time.

I have a sit stand desk, been tempted to go full treadmill with it. Standing gets a bit difficult to do for longer stretches.

My workstation setup isnt practical for a standup desk but I was wondering about a compromise solution that would at least keep my legs moving.

I'm thinking of some kind of footrest that can be placed under a desk. The footrest is weighted and has bike pedals attached. You pedal whilst in your seat. So its sort of like an exercise bike but without the bike.

Anyone seen such a device or have other compromise solutions when a standup desk/treadmill is not practical?

Such devices exist, and are usually made / marketed as gaming accessories - so as a bonus you could very easily wire something up to ensure you keep pedaling!

Yes a desktop odometer would be nice!

Do you know any of these particular gaming accessories? Mike's like in the child comment has the type of 'mini exercise bike' I'm after but a gaming accessory sounds cheaper and more fun.

I'm afraid I can't give you any specific recommendations, I just remember reading about one in PC Gamer magazine (UK) in 2006 or 2007.

I built my own at my office, and I liked it so much that I made another one for my home office.

Here's the setup of my home office one: http://peterarmstrong.com/post/37021212588/sit-stand-treadmi...

I have made some tweaks to that setup, but the basic idea is the same. (The tweak was to create a way to use my SteelSeries 7G along with my laptop + monitors setup.)

Here's the adjustments: http://peterarmstrong.com/post/41881767291/my-sit-stand-trea...

I find I walk between 4 to 10 miles a day, and that I'm more productive walking than not walking. I don't check HN as much while walking, for example.

I started walking slowly (1.6 mph). Now I walk either 1.8 or 1.9 mph comfortably while working. As my fitness improves even more, I'm sure the base speed will improve more too.

I can walk between 2 and 2.5 mph with lowered productivity, but the point is to be productive, not to walk fast, so I walk as slowly as I need to in order to forget about the fact I'm walking and get into coding zones. That's about 1.8 mph right now.

I was thinking about making one with a magnetic (manual) treadmill, so I can amble instead of being paced by machine... has anyone tried this? Amazon has a decent selection: http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_ss_i_1_10?url=search-alias...

One thing to keep in mind is that an inclined treadmill is going to make your head bop up and down a little bit. I'm not sure whether or not it'd be distracting, but you might want to try just walking up a mild hill some time and pay close attention to the movement of your head.

I am experimenting with a standup desk these days. It seems like i move more, leave my desk have a couple of steps every now and then. And this helps me think. Like think out of the box, the context or the distractions attached to it.

That's the biggest advantage of not sitting. I highly doubt that a threadmill can provide me this huge productivity boost...

I am looking into getting one of these. Do you have any recommendations?

I made my own ( http://imgur.com/a/BczGu#26 ) and it's great to work at. If you're buying one, I'd recommend picking a good desk without the motorized bits. Instead of getting something that goes up and down (so you can sit at a normal chair when you don't want to stand), get a tall stool for when you want to sit.

http://store.steelcase.com/products/airtouch-height-adjustab...

http://www.geekdesk.com/

http://www.milk.dk/products.php

Or more stationary: http://www.ikeajerker.com/

One benefit of a stand up desk, from my experience, is that it helps battle grogginess. Since I started using a stand up desk, I have rarely had any mid afternoon, post-lunch fatigue.

I tried a stand up desk for a while before putting together a treadmill desk. I found with the stand up, my legs and feet got tired quickly while standing and I was too easily distracted by shiny things. The treadmill is a bit more captivating and that helps my mental focus. And my feet don't get tired for hours.

Is practical to use a mechanical Treadmill? or is key to have a electric one so it push you?

I'm close to build a standing-desk and wonder if something like http://www.amazon.com/Stamina-55-1610-InMotion-Elliptical-Tr... could work too...

Here's the treadmill desk I made last summer http://codhisattva.tumblr.com/post/37133702658/the-walking-d.... Really practical for me and productive. I find I can work at 2mph and type and read just fine. Although I do have to slow down or stop to type on an iPad or iPhone.

Non-swipe http://codhisattva.tumblr.com/post/37133702658/the-walking-d...

Awesome rig with the On Stage stand. I'm considering building a second treadmill desk for home use, and that's a fantastic idea I had not considered.

One question: Does the Pro Form treadmill allow you to adjust your speed in small increments (~0.1 MPH)? What's the lowest speed it can go?

Anyone using a standing desk: are you using comfort matting designed for people who stand for long times? Or just regular flooring?

I just stand on the regular flooring (which is carpet in my case). My shoes have a relatively soft insole though.

I just use regular flooring (carpet). However, after reading this comment I'm thinking I should get some sort of matting! Haha To be honest, I just hadn't thought of doing that.

I'm not, but I have an adjustable one. I spend about 50% of my time standing and 50% sitting - standing the whole day is also associated with health problems.

I used a standing desk for about 6 months, one with comfort matting. I didn't notice a difference. I also think standing desks don't offer any health benefits over sitting. I can state my reasons why if there is any interest.

stand barefoot on office (read: hard) carpet. I do however find that I need to sit down for a few minutes every hour or so.

Matting is essential, even if it's just some unfashionably padded shoes. Even working summer retail jobs as a teen it was evident that standing for long periods of time just hurts if you're not standing on something. You may notice that cashiers often stand on pads.

I don't think it takes much, though. I stand on what looks like a Shamwow yoga mat.

I got some great standing shoes (normally for nurses chefs), and a standing mat (normally for kitchens and workshops). Once i had both, I could stand all day and have no fatigue.

I've been standing for about 18 months now, and I've lost weight, and have much more endurance and energy playing with my kids.

Yes -- I got a custom mat. I feel it is crucial to be able to withstand long hours standing. http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B003BYRDK2

I would love love LOVE for someone to come out with an inclined treadmill desk that generates electricity from all that walking.

Unfortunately we're not going to generate very much juice. Assuming perfect conversion and assuming that the average person burns 100 calories per hour, we're only talking about .12 watts.

It's actually about 120 watts (a food calorie is actually a kCal), but those 100 calories are being spent through a lot more than your legs. Humans burn over 1000 calories per day just by living, so the additional amount that you're burning from walking is only a fraction of that 100 calories that get burned in the hour (assuming 2 MPH). Some of that fraction of effort is directed downward while some other fraction pushes back against the belt and moves it backwards, and then of course to your point the efficiency of capture is never 100%. The law of conservation of energy also tells us that adding a motor to capture output will add resistance to the belt, requiring you to expend more effort to walk the same distance. This is because you don't exert force against a motor in place of the ground/belt, but rather in addition to it.

I think that's a bit low. According to WA 100kcal are ~120 watt hours. The real problem is of course that us programmers hang around in chairs all day and probably need about 75kcal. Slow walking may increase that by (generous) 50kcal, of which say 75% are lost via body heat etc.

So http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=50+kcal%2Fhour+to+watt+... gives us 15 watt hours. Subtract mechanical losses etc. and we may get 8-12 watts without breaking a sweat. Enough to power an ARM board or similar, but not the display.

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