A Russian Gains Prominence Among Fine Watchmakers | Hacker News Reader

A Russian Gains Prominence Among Fine Watchmakers

nytimes.com

83 pointsadmp46 comments

Another unlikely watchmaker, Dan Spitz from Anthrax:

http://www.hodinkee.com/interview-meet-dan-spitz-anthrax-gui...

edit: lol

He seems exceptionally talented at damn near everything. It's too bad he never got the urge to do comp sci, or we'd have a proof for P=NP by now.

I wonder what direction watch making will take in the future.

As small scale manufacturing is being transformed by 3D printing in general, could there be analogous impact in watch making from cheaper automated precision milling machines?

Imagine an amateur downloading some vanilla clock movement CAD designs; personalizing them to an extend he feels comfortable; and have the parts printed/milled/laser cut offsite for traditional assembly at home. Without being knowledgeable in watchmaking, this sounds like a fraction of the effort that is presently required to make a custom watch.

I do not see why you think cheaper precision milling is going to create an environment where making a watch requires a fraction of the effort. In order for that to be the case the biggest impediment to making a watch would be the cost of production. Do you think its relatively effortless to understand and modify a basic watch design? Do you think "traditional assembly at home" is going to be easy?

I think "being knowledgeable" in watchmaking is a prerequisite for an amateur to personalize the movements to any extent. I highly doubt that many people are going to download watch designs and go nuts and add 5 or 10 new complications that they have always wanted on a watch but could never afford.

I was thinking more along the lines of customizing the watch face for the amateurs. Downloading the movement probably isn't required as completed movements should be available for purchase.

For experts, yes, they should be able to customize their movements and go nuts.

My original post all comes down to lowering the barrier to entry, making existing things possible with less effort, and increasing the iteration speed for very hard and experimental things.

PS. Of course you have to be "knowledgeable" in watch making to pull any of this off. The "without being knowledge" in the original post referred to me commenting on the topic without any specialized knowledge rather than the hypothetical amateur doing things willy-nilly.

I apologize if I am misreading your comment. Are you equating changing the size of the minute hand and/or other face customizations with watchmaking?

I feel like he's describing this: http://www.bamfordwatchdepartment.com/customiser.cfm but I could also be misreading the comment.

That is what I was thinking (afraid of). That's like saying I am a kernel developer because I edited a kernel error message for grammar.

While I don't think cheaper precision milling will ever build an environment where making a watch is a whole lot easier, I do think it's already driving an environment where building a mid-volume independent mechanical watch company is much cheaper.

I don't think we'll see individuals CNCing movements they download online anytime in the near future, especially due to the skill and practice required to simply assemble a movement even once it's designed and machined.

However, the falling price of commercial-scale high-precision CNC is already causing changes in the industry. Comparatively small brands like NOMOS are able to bring manufacturing in-house without raising their cost to hand-machined levels - a move which can be attributed directly to cheaper precision milling.

Swatch's ability to phase-out ETA ébauche sales and the growing popularity of Asian clone-movements as well as Sellita's production ramp-up can be attributed directly to cheaper precision milling as well.

I suspect that horological innovation will increase in the next few years as smaller companies are able to manufacture interesting movements at scale without charging the hand-made costs that independent watchmakers and haute horology brands have demanded in the past, and the ETA phase-out leads manufacturers to consider in-house production over ébauche purchase.

"I don't think we'll see individuals CNCing movements they download online anytime in the near future, especially due to the skill and practice required to simply assemble a movement even once it's designed and machined."

This was precisely my point, i thought the OP drastically underestimated the skill and knowledge required to understand how a watch works, modify it and put together the new improved DIY version. However it seems that the OP thinks personalizing a watchface makes you a watchmaker.

I'm highly skeptical in terms of 3d printing and laser cutting. Laser cutting has issues with tiny pieces heating up and warping. It's something they warn you about when designing parts. Most of the 3d printed parts I've seen pictures of have visible ridges due to print resolution. Also, I question material strength in 3d printing. While the goo coming out of the print head will be hot the deposited material is likely to have cooled.

Source: I'm slowly designing and hopefully making my own clock. I'm targeting more mantle piece size so I can hopefully get away with laser cutting.

What resources have you used to learn clock design?

To be completely honest, I'm cheating. I considered doing a full mechanical clock but I'm going the micro controller and stepper motor route. There are a couple of reasons for this. First and foremost, I don't really have the space for a workshop. Nor, do I have any machinist training. However considering, you can order wooden clock kits on the internet that's probably not the big deal it seems.

Given that I'm cheating, I've vastly reduced the knowledge I need. My mechanical bits should be understandable to any reasonably bright person. The electronics can be gleaned through the howtos on Sparkfun and Ada Fruit.

All that said, basic clock operation doesn't seem to be anything that complicated. The hard parts come in when you want accuracy and run time. There are a couple of clock repair sites around the internet. A common theme seems to be managing wear and lubrication over there years so the tiny amount of power provided is enough.

Thanks. I also lack a workshop and machinist training, and these days the time. I've got an extra room and no longer have a roommate so I could make use of it as a workshop now. Just need tools and a project, old desk will be my workbench.

I'm still waiting for 3D printing to achieve the quality necessary to print high-quality parts for something like a watch. I don't believe such quality is impossible, but I will be restraining my "the world will never be the same!!!" until we at least get close.

You should check out UTS watches. The German guy who started it had a business selling high end CNC machines. I guess he wanted to make something with them. So he cuts the cases for these watches on his machines. He puts a nice mechanical ETA movement in them. I have one of the 1000M watches, and it is a thing of beauty. There is a guy in America who takes care of sales, and the guy who makes them in Munich. Kind of a watch geek thing, but they make a nice business out of it.

http://www.utswatches.com/

They look so generic, like thousands of other watches.

Isn't all wine made from grapes?

I guess your generic is my minimalist elegance ;-).

Nice-looking watches, but I was very surprised to see prices over US$5,000 from a maker with no cachet and fairly standard design / no special complications.

It is all personal taste I guess. Mine was about half that price for the 1000M. Their value is in the beautiful cases and bracelets, all CNC cut from a hunk of stainless steel. They are among the most waterproof watches on the market. I'll never actually dive 1000 meters, so I realize that is like people who never drive their SUV on a dirt road.

I prefer my watches to be kind of minimalist, so I like the design. It has no cachet in that no one has heard of UTS, and nobody comments on it. But it makes me happy to have a unique thing of beauty, so that works for me. I view it as much more special than a fairly common watch like the Omega Speedmaster, say.

Awesome watches I love them, worth every penny.

The Levitas watch referred to on the second page: http://watchpaper.ru/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/Konstantin-C...

Impressive. And not because of the crapton of diamonds.

I have such great admiration for these sorts of hackers. I really do love advanced clockwork (the Dr. Who episode with the clockwork ship crew that goes back to capture Madame de Pompadour comes to mind). Clockwork is, to me, the essence of hardware.

As an aside, it would be extremely cool if someone (maybe I would try my hand at it in the future) could create a sort of Hardware Description Language for clockwork, the same way we have VHDL and Verilog for circuits.

For those interested in watches, the book "Watchmaking" by George Daniels is an interesting read. It's very technical, but covers in great detail all the steps necessary to make a watch, including some complications.

I built a simple site for George in 2008. Nice guy, died last year. I took a video of his co-axial escapement model a couple of years ago:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NMWpT-MniFo

If this is one of those "if you have to ask, you can't afford it" industries, I'll just buy a Casio. Why can't we get prices on these damn watch websites? I'm willing to spend money on a watch, but I'm not willing to wade through a phone call (or worse, give you my contact information and await your callback...)

Why, would you consider placing an order to buy a watch from the website without further consultation?

Indeed. Especially with a liberal return/exchange policy.

Since they are all hand made I assume its more like wanting to buy some custom art, you don't just go on ebay and pick the first thing you see, you talk with the artist about what you desire in it. Based on that I bet the price changes. If you want a platinum face to your watch I'm sure he can accommodate.

They may be handmade, but the sites display predesigned models. Even if they're handmade to order (i.e. they don't keep inventory), I expect to get the watch shown. Is it too much to ask for even a range? Is that a $500 watch? $10,000? Should I only consider buying one after I've paid cash for a Lamborghini?

Another self-taught watchmaker with some beautiful pieces http://www.pita.es/jsp/thewatches.jsp

I was rather surprised to read* that neighbor Finland is actually responsible for the largest community of foreign watchmakers working in Swiss industry. 30 overall; names like Kari Voutilainen and Stepan Sarpaneva.

[*] http://www.worldtempus.com/fr/actualites/a-la-une/detail/art...

Here's a great background piece on School of Watchmaking, est. 1944 near Helsinki: http://www.tp178.com/wsw/ahci/fin_wmschool/article_01.htm

> While most of the Western world divides the day into two halves — a.m. and p.m.

I'm not sure if that's only a German thing but I think it's that way in most of Europe.

I believe Germany (and most of europe) counts as part of the western world.

Yeah, ambiguous wording on my part, sorry. I meant that we don't divide the day in just two halves.

“Typical ways to describe time in Russian include phrases such as ‘I woke up at 7 in the morning’ or ‘I will stop by at 2 in the afternoon’ or ‘Someone was making a lot of noise at 11 at night,”’ Mr. Chaykin said.

All of these I use myself (in California). Are there languages/cultures where this isn't the case? In addition, I'll add "6 in the evening" (early night) and "woke up at dawn" (early morning).

If thinking of the day in more than 2 parts epitomizes being Russian, then most of my fellow Californians (and likely my fellow Americans), are going to be very confused.

Ham Radio culture uses 24-hour time; military also. And if you look at my smartphone you will see that as well.

The difference is that in Russian the division into 4 parts is more formal. In the same sense as in English the 24 hours are divided into am / pm, in Russian it's divided to morning/afternoon/evening/night. The formal name for 2 a.m. in English is "2 in the morning". But you just can't say "2 in the morning" in Russian - this wouldn't make any sense. You can only say "2 in the night".

Hm, off the tip of my tongue I'd say "два утра", but I haven't spoken Russian full time in over a decade now :/

"Are there languages/cultures where this isn't the case?"

Well when it's not obvious in french you'd typically add "du matin" or "ce matin" to mean it was in the morning. But if you meet someone at 5pm you typically would just say : "Je me suis reveille a 8 heures". No need to say "8 heures du matin" or "8 heures ce matin" because it's pretty darn obvious. However you can add "du matin" / "ce matin" : it's certainly not a fault and many people do it.

Now regarding the afternoon, you have the choice in french : either you use 12 or 24 hours. For 12 hours, it's the same as for the morning : 4 pm can be "4 heures de l'apres-midi" or "16 heures". 8 pm can be "8 heures du soir" or "20 heures".

I typically use the 24 hours system because there's no ambiguity.

Now I don't know the official rules and it's certainly often contextual. If someone asks you what time it is in a bar at night, it's pretty obvious when you answer "11 heures" that it's 11 pm but "23 heures" is good too. Same if you answer "2 heures", you then obviously mean 2 am, no need to say "2 heures du matin".

Just this past year I started to get an interest in watches. These watches of his look fantastic, I love the independent watch styles.

Professor Gerald Sussman of MIT put together this great video on an electrical engineer's view of a mechanical watch:

http://video.mit.edu/watch/an-electrical-engineering-view-of...

Patek Philippe, makes some extraordinary time pieces and has a museum: http://www.patekmuseum.com/ Edit: Also, http://www.patek.com/

I bought a very nice mechanical watch today (in-house movement, 3 complications, pink gold).

There was something immensely good about buying a pure mechanical device in this crazy 0's and 1's world. Even if it was build thanks to amazing technologies, including computers and advanced software, the end product is still 100% mechanical.

And this timeless masterpiece should still be working perfectly long after all the electronic junk I'm using today shall be forgotten ; )

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