Comment by redwood | Hacker News Reader

Comment by redwood | Hacker News Reader

We really need to reflect on the slippery slope, America.

I recommend checking out this TED talk because it's very inspirational: http://on.ted.com/Stevenson The focus of the talk is a bit more on inequality in the justice system than tech laws, say. But it's relevant since a) we need to be mindful of the "other" who's persecuted, as we're reminded by some of our own who are persecuted. and b) this talk highlights how we accept the moment as normal even when the moment is unjust. The talk reminds us to stand up and fight for what's right, rather than accept the new normal.

Finally, I'm reminded of the Martin Niemöller quote that we should always remember:

"First they came for the communists, and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a communist.

Then they came for the socialists, and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a socialist.

Then they came for the trade unionists, and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a trade unionist.

Then they came for the jews, and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a Jew.

Then they came for the catholics, and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a catholic.

Then they came for me, and there was no one left to speak for me."

EDIT: I do apologize for the hyperbole folks... it was more inspired by the TED talk I linked to than the article above and the feelings caused by the Schwartz case and others. I went off topic, sorry!

I'm sorry, but you have an extremely warped sense of history if you think contractual arrangements between mobile phone network operators and their customers are comparable to the restrictions on freedom in Nazi Germany. This is a really bleak example of Godwin's Law in action.

http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/godwins-law

AFTER EDIT: Seeing the kind reply from the person with whom I am disagreeing here, I note from the dates of Martin Niemöller's life (14 January 1892 – 6 March 1984)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_Niem%C3%B6ller

that his quotation was surely about the Nazis, and it couldn't possibly have preceded the presence of the National Socialist German Workers (Nazi) Party in Germany "by half a century," so you were referring to the Nazis whether your knowledge of history included that realization or not. I have known that quotation since 1969, when I learned it from my elementary school teacher that year, when Niemöller was still alive.

With all due respect, even if the rhetoric is a bit hyperbolic, redwood's point is still valid. Winning major legislative and court victories against telecom, for example, makes no difference if consumers are willing (or forced) to negotiate their way into even worse positions than before as technological and market forces render cable/broadband and wireless providers the true behemoths of the modern market.

While I appreciate you're point, I'm thinking about this in the context of the Schwartz case and others. There is value to pointing to the slippery slope and fighting against it. I don't accept the premise of the Godwin's Law argument but respect that you do. I'd also point out that the quote pre-dates the Nazis by half a century so I didn't really go there

EDIT: You're right I literally misred his bio and had thought he died the year he was born :) Makes more sense, I admit :)

This a thousand times. It seems geeks get their panties in a bunch and start spouting off nonsense at the drop of a hat around here lately. I don't imagine many are engineers or they would use more logic.

It's a bit shocking that people do not realize the context in which this quote was born.

For anyone who makes such misguided comparisons, I urge you seek out someone who actually lived through Nazi rule or in the Soviet Union and find out what they think of your ideas.

I don't believe the OP was actually comparing a 2-year contract to getting killed in a gas chamber. But rather comparing how easy it is for many people to just look away and not care about things that happen to others since it is not happening to them... only to find that one day it DOES happen to them and then they're screwed. This happens on many levels less than genocide. Getting involved should not be reserved for only combating genocide.

Well... I get it even if others don't. I've used this same quote before to point out how easy it is to give up the freedoms of others when it does not effect you. Sure, there will likely (hopefully) never be atrocities committed at the level of those committed by Nazi Germany, but the ideas in that quote can hold true for lesser events. This quote perfectly outlines what happens on that "slippery slope" we like to talk about.

Well I suppose persecution by one's cellphone carrier is better than by race or religion. I enjoyed your outstanding level of hyperbole though.

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