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Comment by wlesieutre | Hacker News Reader

> Completely flat design has no sense of layers or depth.

Windows 8 suffers particularly strongly from this because it's got a lot of software that wasn't originally designed for the Metro style. Outlook (http://i.imgur.com/7fWEmvm.png) is one of the worst examples.

There are so many small things that would help give a hierarchy to the design, like using a darker shade of gray in the ribbon background and maybe the sidebar. Without visual cues it's a mess that you have to stare at to understand.

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That screen shot just pains me to look at it.

Even obvious details are wrong like one set of reply buttons being flat and another set with gradients. This is really sloppy.

It's possible that isn't the final version; I just found the screenshot on GIS. But as far as I know it still looks like that in RTM.

Definitely isn't RTM.

Here are those sections in RTM. http://imgur.com/Uz5xi0t http://imgur.com/k3Comek

edit: It appears the reply buttons do squish like that on narrower screens though, but it's at around 1000px wide or less, so that's really a non-point in this day and age. Gradient issue isn't there though.

It is possible that some of those buttons are from add-ins like CRM, which haven't updated to the new look and feel. Visual Studio 2012 has the same problem.

Although this by no means affects your main point about the organisation/visual hierarchy.

Indeed, I looked at the image before fully reading the comment and thought it was an older version of Outlook.

The application in your screenshot doesn't suffer from a lack of gradients and drop shadows. The problem is the almost uniform treatment of every element of the interface. This isn't a problem with "flat design" ( whatever that is ) but poor typography. One can ( and should ) create a clear visual hierarchy through type and color without resorting to shadows to give it more "depth".

To be fair that interface has WAY bigger problems than being flat. Even if you unflattened it, it would still be a horrible interface.

Not really a fair argument.

This isn't a perfect comparison because it's a larger screenshot, but the non-flat interface is 2010 was laid out the same way. In my opinion, it's a much clearer interface: http://cdn-static.zdnet.com/i/story/61/44/001475/out14-revis...

Windows Phone has a lot problems as well. I open the Photos Enhancer app for example and it's impossible to know what is clickable or not. You effectively have to keep tapping on text/images until something happens.

The whole flat design approach still needs a lot more thought.

Same in Android actually.

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