Comment by rubeng | Hacker News Reader

Comment by rubeng | Hacker News Reader

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I'm a big fan of outsourcing development as that was the route I chose to launch my product (http://www.bidsketch.com) in a much shorter time than it took when I was doing everything myself.

I outsourced the early code and design. Quality of both was shaky, but I only had $3,000 to put into it so I wasn't working with much. I later picked up on the last 25% of the development to get into a beta (since my cash ran out), but I was very glad I took this approach.

I've since been able to work with higher quality of developers and designers and improved both areas, but when you have a product that's solving a real problem, customers will be more than happy to pay for that shaky 1st version (as they did with mine).

That said, I have a dev background and learning Rails before outsourcing it was a big help. I know people that don't have a dev background and successfully outsourced dev of their products (I even helped a couple pick their developers), but it's a bit tougher and it helps if you have at least someone with a dev background that can help you pick the right developer.

Ruben, thanks for chiming in with your experience!

You had development experience and could tell what was going on… and Nathan didn't, which is why I was discouraging him from that route.

I personally don't know anyone w/o dev chops who fully outsourced the development of their product, with success.

I'd love to hear about how your friends made it work. Was it with your help?

You know, after I helped them out with picking a developer, they didn't ask for help once development started. I offered to help but they either didn't run into problems or didn't come to me when they did.

These are the ones that were successful at it...many more were not. But I don't know if the ratio is the same for people with/without dev experience (plus sample size is too small).

What I do know is that most:

1. Got help picking a developer initially

2. Had some guidelines on how to work with a developer

3. Had no development experience

4. Had to get learn how to outsource and made some mistakes (but eventually made it work)

Outsourcing is tough at first but it gets easier. Like any skill, you have to get better at it.

In any case, I do think it's a great idea to learn how to program so you're not so helpless if/when problems come up.

Hmm, thanks!

One more q: Were these single people with limited budgets, or companies?

Not a prob! :) These were single people with a limited budget. I do have a Bidsketch customer that almost falls into this category (and I helped find a dev), but I didn't include him since he runs a small SEO shop where he's used to outsourcing and had tens of thousands to help him fund the development. Dane Maxwell, which Nathan mentions and doesn't have dev experience, also took the outsourcing approach in building his $40k+/month web app. Though he had a few years experience trying to bootstrap other apps before he was successful to that level.

Ruben nailed it with this list. In my experience outsourcing is a continuum; it's not a never/always situation. Meaning you can increase your chance of success by having the factors Ruben mentioned above in place. I would also add that these factors make it easier to outsource your app:

1. Having dev skills

2. Building a mobile app or WP plugin (i.e., something simple) vs. a SaaS app (i.e. tons of moving parts and more ongoing maintenance)

3. Experience outsourcing in the past. It is absolutely a learned skill and the more you do it the better you get.

If you have none of the things Ruben and I have listed (so you're not a dev, you're building a SaaS or other complex app, it's your first time outsourcing, etc...) you have a very, very low chance of succeeding. And if you have every single one you're on the opposite end - IMO the swing could literally be from 10% chance to 90% chance of success depending on the factors you have in place.

Rob, rubeng, this is fantastic insight. It sounds like you have to start small to learn the ropes however ambitious you are. i.e. even if you want to build a SaaS app, if you've got no experience, you will likely fail.

So, if you're new to development, it's probably best to build small products (wp plugins, niche sites etc.) to build your portfolio, earn a little cash and more importantly increase your knowledge and experience. Amy, I'm not sure you would agree with this but I'd love to hear your views.

Aside: Rob, you mentioned that outsourcing is a continuum and something that needs to be learned. Is it possible that some people just get lucky with a great outsourced developer? For example, you've said on various podcasts that you're an advocate of VAs but have you had more than 1 or 2? Presumably, as soon as one works, you stick with him/her - perhaps that's luck rather than learning?

>>So, if you're new to development, it's probably best to build small products (wp plugins, niche sites etc.) to build your portfolio, earn a little cash and more importantly increase your knowledge and experience.

Yes, this is the tact I would take. I talked about this exact topic in-depth on a recent episode of Foolish Adventure: http://foolishadventure.com/audio/how-to-market-your-softwar...

Early successes are huge not only for you learning the ropes of outsourcing/marketing and giving yourself a small financial cushion, but also for building your confidence that you can make this happen.

>>Rob, is it possible that some people just get lucky with a great outsourced developer?

Good point. This is definitely possible. In my list of the 3 factors above I should have added a 4th: You find an awesome developer, whether through luck, having a great network, or knowing how to hire.

But it's just another variable that impacts that continuum I mentioned and pushes you more towards that 90% or 10% end.

>>For example, you've said on various podcasts that you're an advocate of VAs but have you had more than 1 or 2? Presumably, as soon as one works, you stick with him/her - perhaps that's luck rather than learning?

My success rate at hiring and managing VAs, developers, designers, writers, etc... is waaay better than it was when I started (at least 2x better, maybe 3x). I attribute this to getting better at both hiring (i.e., choosing the right fit) and managing/delegating (i.e. having more skill with outsourcing).

> * So, if you're new to development, it's probably best to build small products (wp plugins, niche sites etc.) to build your portfolio, earn a little cash and more importantly increase your knowledge and experience. Amy, I'm not sure you would agree with this but I'd love to hear your views.*

Oh, of course I agree. One of the things I harp on over & over is the idea of stacking the bricks:

http://unicornfree.com/2012/9-years-ago-37signals-had-no-pro...

The whole concept says "Don't try to build a SaaS the first time. Build something small. Don't try to build a huge business the first time. Focus on selling SOMETHING." etc. :)

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