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Comment by mpyne | Hacker News Reader

> Trying to throw every possible crime at someone no matter how tenuous in order to extort a plea bargain or get just one to stick to improve your prosecution record is an obvious distortion of the original intent of the system.

Except that a grand jury has to sustain that the charges are at least "better than tenuous". Once the case is resolved one way or the other the defendant can't be tried for it again (Constitutional 'double jeopardy') so the prosecutors have to bring any charges that can hold up (this is why Federal sentencing is wonky as well).

> Avoiding trials altogether because of the structure of the legal system is the wrong approach. Improving the expediency by which the legal system can provide justice is the right approach.

Uh, plea bargains are the #1 way the system is made more "expedient", you can't have your cake and eat it too. Feel free to continue putting words into my mouth about "sanctioning miscarriage of justice" though.

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> Uh, plea bargains are the #1 way the system is made more "expedient", you can't have your cake and eat it too. Feel free to continue putting words into my mouth about "sanctioning miscarriage of justice" though.

What the heck. Forcing plea bargains on 96% percent of accused is just so we can be "expedient" for the other 4%? How does that make sense? Other countries get by just fine without plea bargains. Maybe we could get expedience by, you know, focusing prosecution effort on serious crimes or ones that actually have victims.

> Feel free to continue putting words into my mouth about "sanctioning miscarriage of justice" though.

You might want to read up on how plea bargaining is viewed in other countries. There are some that are of the opinion that plea bargains are "miscarriage of justice", and you seem to be defending it as a perfectly fine practice.

(edit: not sure what I think on plea bargains generally. But in this particular case it seems pretty ridiculous.)

> Forcing plea bargains

I'm not sure that we agree on the meaning of the word "forcing".

> Other countries get by just fine without plea bargains.

Yes, I'm often reminded of how pathetic the United States is. But with that in mind those other countries have different concepts of the legal system (the vision of what it accomplishes, the policies, everything). I'm not here to claim that the U.S. legal system is 100% appropriate to the task, but instead that the prosecutors are going to the job with the resources that they have. If Congress significantly reduces the category and criteria of what counts as crimes by getting rid of the stupid stuff then great, but that's not the system the prosecutors are in now.

> Maybe we could get expedience by, you know, focusing prosecution effort on serious crimes or ones that actually have victims.

Do you have any specific cases in mind involving serious crimes or crimes with more deserving victims (since apparently MIT doesn't count) that were not prosecuted due to the resources needed being assigned to the Swartz case?

> You might want to read up on how plea bargaining is viewed in other countries.

Please don't take this the wrong way but I don't operate my life based on opinion polls. If I'm right, then I'm right, and if I'm wrong (which is certainly possible) it won't be because Bjørn and Herr Müller have different opinions about what plea bargaining is and is not, it will be because I'm wrong.

What the heck. Forcing plea bargains on 96% percent of accused is just so we can be "expedient" for the other 4%? How does that make sense?

How is the prison industry to lobby for more prison-building if our current prisons aren't filled past capacity? If the accused are allowed their Constitutional right to a trial, we'll have to double the spending on courts just like we've doubled the spending on everything else!

Oh, wait...

http://bjs.ojp.usdoj.gov/content/glance/exptyp.cfm

It has been said, not quite accurately, that a prosecutor can get a grand jury to indict a ham sandwich. Grand juries are almost negligible in their power to prevent prosecutorial abuse.

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