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Comment by lancefisher | Hacker News Reader

My 5-yo son has a hard time behaving at pre-school. I think it has a lot to do with being bored, since he is far ahead of the other students. They are tracing letters, while he likes to write short stories. They are learning to count to 10, while he can multiply and divide.

Nevertheless, we had him tested by a neurobehavioral specialist who believes he has ADD. The doctor recommended either drugs or neurofeedback. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neurofeedback

I'm very hesitant to give my 5-yo any medication, but we are considering neurofeedback. I'm curious if anyone here has any knowledge or experience with it.

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> My 5-yo son has a hard time behaving at pre-school. I think it has a lot to do with being bored, since he is far ahead of the other students. They are tracing letters, while he likes to write short stories. They are learning to count to 10, while he can multiply and divide.

It might make sense to find a more advanced program for him before you go do anything else. If he's as advanced as you say, boredom could be the major factor beyond anything else. If his behavior doesn't change after that, I'd consider the other options then.

Please, please find something more challenging for your son to do than wait for other students to catch up. How envious are the other students in his class, and how are they taking it out on him? Please don't let others treat your son's advanced abilities as a disorder, or hold it against him.

Before you start considering treatment options, I'd strongly recommend making sure you get some objective testing done. I don't know what form of "tested by a neurobehavioral specialist" you've already gone through, but objective tests exist for attention disorders. I can personally recommend the T.O.V.A. Company's test; it's a simple reaction-time test that detects a pile of different attention disorders very accurately and objectively, without regard to any subjective evaluations of behavior. Several brilliant friends of mine run that company, and they know their stuff.

Also, congratulations on having a kid who has problems in school because they're far ahead; as problems go, that's a pretty good one to have. :)

I was terribly bored in school for the same reason.

If I had a child with this problem, I wouldn't even consider drugs. I would do my best to challenge them with higher-level reading material, computer games, programming (Logo or something) as soon as they're ready, etc.

I would also try to get them to meditate with me. That is the best way to learn to manage a wayward mind.

Neurofeedback, if I understand correctly, is a kind of electronically-assisted meditation. As such I think it might be worth trying if they just weren't ready for more self-directed forms.

Maybe you could consider taking him out of school, before you consider medication. School shouldn't be the first priority. Many people learn outside of school just fine. Medication can come later.

I do not know about neurofeedback, but try surrounding your child with children at their level, even if they are a bit older instead of using drugs.

I'm not a believer in ADD medication, even though I've been diagnosed and prescribed ADD medication. It just becomes a new state, most of the problem lies in finding healthy ways to deal with the issues. Try meditation and yoga to start with.

Wow, thanks for all the feedback here!

To be clear, my son is not at pre-school for the academics. We feel that it is important for him to experience a social atmosphere, and although he is ready to learn at a kindergarten or 1st-grade level, I don't know that putting him in a class with children much older than himself would be beneficial.

I've never felt there is "something wrong" with him, but it would be good if he could operate within the norms of a classroom.

I would like to homeschool, but my wife does not feel up to it. (I'm not putting her down at all, it's a big task and requires buy-in from both of us)

For academics, I continue to teach him at home interactively, and he also loves self-directed study.

The real difficulty for him is listening to the teacher, and not running around when he should be sitting, not screaming when he doesn't get his way, etc. At home, if he has something interesting to work on he can sit and concentrate easily for an hour or longer.

Before you make any decision, please join a gifted list. Bright sudents who are suffering from "bored gifted kid syndrome" are frequently pathologized by teachers and other experts, who are usually unqualified to appropriately assess them. A grade skip, enrichment, homeschooling or some other means to challenge the child might be a more effective "cure". I know of kids who were distractable and never on task until enrolled in college at age 13 and things like that.

I was gifted and ADD...there is actually a large correlation between the diagnosis of ADD and being classified gifted.

Yes that's true. And OCD, ASD, etc. But ADD is supposed to be a diagnosis of elimination. If you haven't found something else to account for the symptoms, after all else has been looked at, you classify them ADD. In contrast, professionals with little to no experience with gifted or twice exceptional kids frequently leap to conclusions. ADD is one of those conclusions. You can be both gifted and ADD. You can also just be bright, bored to tears and annoying the fool out of the adults around you.

Thanks. What exactly is a gifted list? Is it a club you join, a newsletter you subscribe to, or a specific organization? Do you have any recommendations?

Like an email list. Google "Hoagies gifted page". She should have a list of resources. Pick one, or a few, and sign up. Stick with whichever one works for you. Read the discussion, surf the archives, pick up a few popular books. Your view of your child will evolve and you will be more able to determine if you need to seek intervention for a handicap or just up the intellectual "diet". :-)

Edit: My fossilized list of recommendations: http://www.kidslikemine.com/archive/supportontheweb.shtml

It isn't remotely current. I am very out of the loop. But Hoagies is linked there and she should have more current info.

I had a hard time concentrating in school as well. Always in the principal's office, and got C's in conduct all the way through 6th grade. I thank god my parents never had me 'diagnosed' because I was guaranteed to be labeled 'ADD' and been prescribed medication for this truly bullshit condition concocted by the modern age.

I strongly suspect it isn't "bullshit" but it is overdiagnosed. It may be a very good thing that you weren't labelled and many may be mislabelled but that doesn't mean there aren't people with real neuropysiological/chemical differences that really do affect behaviour and can be counterbalanced by drugs.

>this truly bullshit condition

Congratulations on your doctorate! Did you go for an MD or a PhD?

Psychology has some of the worst 'science' there is. It's studying alchemy before understanding chemistry. Reading psychology journal articles is painful.

You do know that there's a difference between psychiatry and psychology, right?

Neurobiology isn't a soft science.

> prescribed medication for this truly bullshit condition concocted by the modern age.

Ritalin is nearly 60 years old.

Sorry I meant the condition is concocted, not the drug.

The drug has been used to treat the condition for nearly 60 years.

> I had a hard time concentrating in school as well.

Why would you think you would be diagnosed with an executive function disorder?

> My 5-yo son has a hard time behaving at pre-school. I think it has a lot to do with being bored, since he is far ahead of the other students.

Trust your instincts. Maybe this environment isn't right for him? How would you want him to behave in this kind of environment?

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