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Comment by oinksoft | Hacker News Reader

As long as they've got guys randomly swabbing old folks' palms to test for bomb-making materials, and all of the other ridiculous trespasses on personal dignity that comprise their much maligned "security theatre," I won't be flying. Amtrak may have a few threatening "see it, say it" signs at the station, but at least they treat me like a customer and not a maniac.

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Some of us who travel between continents don't have that luxury.

TSA already monitors Amtrack:

http://www.cnn.com/2012/02/06/opinion/don-phillips-tsa-vipr-...

Due to the broad description of the organization's purpose, it gives them overreaching powers allowing them to secure any mode of transportation. This has led to the TSA expanding its presence and showing up at NFL games:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/christopher-elliott/the-tsa-wa...

Edit: For those commenting about NFL game presence without reading the linked article...

  > Few people know that $105 million of their taxpayer dollars are going to fund
  > 37 VIPR teams in 2012, whose purpose is to "augment" the security of any mode
  > of transportation. They don't realize that these VIPR teams can show up
  > virtually anytime, anywhere and without warning, subjecting you to a search
  > of your vehicle or person.

I love it. I encourage their presence at NFL games. I hope they give football fans a full body cavity search. Let Joe Sixpack endure their absurdity and maybe we'll actually see progress toward ending the TSA.

If you can afford tickets to actually go to an NFL game, you're in the same elite as air travelers if not richer.

or have a credit card and not a lot of sense

Yeah but you can use that to get airline tickets too.

Or a shitty team that can't sell seats (ahem, I'm from Jacksonville).

Lots of businesses give tickets to clients as a token of gratitude for sending work their way.

I've been more violated entering NFL games than going through airport security, on average.

The problem is that the American people want to do anything about terrorists, crime or "for the children" at the expense of our civil liberties. It's entirely irrational. TSA at NFL games will not even remotely begin to change that.

There was a bit of an uproar about the increased security measures at NFL stadiums some years ago but it died down and things went on as usual.

I haven't been in the US for just over a decade. What is keeping Americans so concerned about terrorists all this time later?

Fox News, largely. You know how you see all sorts of ridiculous inaccuracies and jokes at Fox News's expense on the Internet? That's the most-watched news source in the United States.

I don't know if I would blame it on Fox. They practically function as the media arm of the Republicans, and it's not just Republicans pushing the buttons for fear of terrorism.

It can't be blamed on Fox News any longer. They're still cheerleaders for the "War on Terror", but these wars now belong to the current president. Do you see other news outlets questioning the current president's military occupations, drone attacks, etc?

Intermittent reports of thwarted terrorists plots (Richard Reed shoe-bombing type stuff), plus the fact that we're still at war in Afghanistan, in a standoff with Iran, occupying Iraq, and still hounding Al Qaeda everywhere we can.

Among other things, several prosecutions of accused terrorists arrested before they could blow stuff up. In almost all of these, the actual instigators were government agents working undercover, and the alleged "terrorists" who were actually put on trial were low-level accomplices who got lured (sometimes even bullied) into participating in the plot.

Here's an overview:

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/blogs/national-affairs/...

There's also full TSA security at rallies for presidential/VP candidates. Clearly the problem isn't solvable by treating people worse until they won't bear it- the parties' core bases seem to have no problem with being cleared by TSA just to see a speech.

This won't do anything. Give the VIP box seats and season passholders the run-through, search them at orchestral events & the opera, maybe we'll see something. Maybe.

Just because they say they want to monitor Amtrak doesn't mean they can afford to. There are too many stations and the mode of travel itself doesn't lend itself well to surveillance (you board and leave as you please). I'm not saying they couldn't, but it would be a massive undertaking. At best, they could lock down major stations like DC's Union or New York's Penn, and it would all be a joke anyway because a "threat" could've boarded at Wilmington or Ticonderoga.

"Massive undertaking" => "Moar funding please!"

Also, there is the whole "the entry/exit points are irrelevant given that the damn thing rolls over hundreds of miles of completely unsecured track outside often without so much as a fence around it.

Did logic ever enter the equation?

Their actions may be perfectly logical, if preventing terrorism isn't their main goal.

FWIW, I've been on an interstate Amtrak train and watched plain clothed officers or agents of something or other, board at a stop and randomly search bags.

Admittedly I don't know a lot about the NFL, but I was fairly sure it was a sports league. Can you explain to me how it has become a mode of transportation?

The NFL isn't a mode of transportation. The car you drove to the stadium is. The TSA is clearly there to ensure no terrorists board your car with you.

"Due to a loophole that allows them to secure any mode of transportation, TSA is expanding its presence and showing up at NFL games"

So an NFL game is now considered a mode of transportation?

Maybe the TSA can help solve our nation's persistent public transit shortage by revealing previously unknown transportation solutions.

Cause that's what we need, TSA agents searching you before you get on every bus, train, subway and light rail. :)

I was treated poorly by them a few years back. They demanded a current ID, which I didn't have. The whole reason I was taking the train was because my drivers license had expired and I was waiting for the new one.

You didn't use to have to produce ID to travel inside your own country, shame it's come to this.

Devils Advocate: Maybe they wanted your ID to make sure that you were the one that purchased the ticket.

I think it's called a ticket because having the ticket is what lets you travel. Stealing tickets is illegal because if you have the ticket, you can travel. If you have to be the person who bought the ticket in order to travel, you don't need a ticket, because you can prove that you're the person who bought it.

Several of the Amtrak stations I have been at have super-creepy "propaganda stations". Basically a TV on a big metal pedestal, sometimes flanked by some potted plants for some reason, that just loop videos about how good their bomb-dogs are at chasing people carrying bombs through train stations, and about how they are all super pleased to be serving the public in such an important manner.

Screening for traces of explosives seems to be less invasive and maybe more effective than most of the other "resources" they use

"I won't be flying. Amtrak may have a few threatening "see it, say it" signs at the station, but at least they treat me like a customer and not a maniac."

Uh, huh. Just wait. TSA stands for Transportation Security Administration. Transportation...

> TSA stands for Transportation Security Administration. Transportation...

Well the S stands for security and we are still waiting for that...

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