No, you are not ‘running late’ – you are rude and selfish | Hacker News Reader

No, you are not ‘running late’ – you are rude and selfish

leadingcompany.com.au

12 pointscodeka23 comments

If you care that much, do something about it. Fire people that show up late. Refuse to patronize businesses that don't work to your schedule. Unfriend friends that show up to dinner at 8:45 instead of 7:58. It's really very simple.

As you sit alone in your apartment admiring your superior sense of right and wrong, you might consider the fact that while clocks can measure and display the time to the second, people can't. And your friends and colleagues are people, not atomic clocks.

Perhaps the unreasonable selfish person is you.

"Refuse to patronize businesses that don't work to your schedule."

I don't think this is a valid point. When you arrange an appointment, meeting or lunch with another party/parties/business for a specific time and duration then surely that's no longer "your schedule" but rather "our schedule" and it is the responsibility of both parties to honor that schedule, it's just polite.

I may be reading your comment wrong but I find the tone to be a little uncalled for, sneering almost. Do you really think a person wanting people around him to be timely means they have a "superior sense or right and wrong"?

And if so why? Genuinely interested.

If a business doesn't follow their posted hours, I stop going there. And if I'm meeting someone for dinner at 8 and they don't show up until 8:45, I'm probably gone by then. Really, you just wait around for three quarters of an hour?

Technically anyone that is trying to impose their will or conventions is selfish, but I think it's a stretch to argue that they author is selfish. He's arguing that people respect existing social conventions. A similar social convention is making excessive noise late in the night.

It has nothing to do with a superior sense of right and wrong.

If we are going to meet up at 1pm and you roll in at 1:20pm that makes me think you have absolutely no value for my time.

What do you think I am stuck doing for those 20 minutes? If it's at a place to get lunch or something then I'm sitting there doing nothing.

> Why do people, invited for a dinner party at 7.30pm, think it’s cool to arrive at 8.30pm? It’s rude.

This varies by culture. From where I'm from, it's arriving at 7:30 that is considered rude, with 20-30 minutes being late being optimal and 1 hour is being more or less acceptable, but kinda pushing it.

That's interesting and hard to understand at the same time. In which country do you live in?

I'm always late for everything and I don't see what the fuss is about. FYI I'm a software engineer, in India. In software, there is a concept of a buffer period, which people learn to add to the estimates, because inevitably, things gets delayed. Maybe you need to recognize when to do this with people.

I don't know if you're some big shot CEO or someone for whom a few minutes is a loss in millions. I don't believe in living life being so worried about my time or others time. The only waste of time is doing a job and not hacking on something great. Here's a nice poem for you to sit back, take a deep breath and read.

LEISURE

What is the life, full of care we have no time to stand and stare. no time to stand beneath the boughs and stare as long as sheep or cows. No time to see, when woods we pass, where squirrels hide their nuts in grass. No time to see, in broad daylight, stream full of stars, like skies at night. No time to turn at beauty's glance, and watch her feet, how they can dance. No time to wait till her mouth can Enrich that smile her eyes began. A poor life this if, full of care, we have no time to stand and stare.

By William Henry Davies.

It's a cultural difference. I'm sure that what happens in general French office culture is totally not acceptable in India. Example: in a lot of French companies each morning co-workers tend to greet each other by shaking hands (when it's male on male) or by giving the females two kisses on the cheek (when it's male on female or two females).

The same holds for how time and appointments are viewed in Germany, the Netherlands etc; different from other places.

Note; I haven't spend much time working in France but I did experienced it first-hand there; the described behavior might just not be as prevalent nowadays as I'm assuming it is though.

It's the normal way to greet yes. And appointment time culture is different in germany and in france, where it's a little bit more relaxed.

Every minute you're late is a minute in which YOU are relaxed but the OTHER person is wasting time waiting for you.

I haven't noticed this as strongly as the author of the article. But there are definitely cultural factors at play.

I'm Dutch and I work a lot in Germany; everyone tends to come in right on time whether it's a physical meeting or a conference call. Either that or they got hit by a bus. That's in general also the way it works in the Netherlands.

With the UK and the USA it's different; not as bad as in the article but they definitely aren't as punctual as the Germans and the Dutch.

Maybe it's because of the lack of wrist watches? I feel like I'm of a dying breed anyway since I still wear one all the time. Especially in the USA everyone just uses their phones for that.

It appears to be more of a cultural thing, as I've noticed that here in North America times appear to be treated relative, whereas in Europe it was treated like a deadline in most cases.

If you're late, whatever was scheduled to happen that time would most likely be postponed or cancelled by then, unless it was a group meeting.

Plus, I personally find it also insulting, as the person arriving late clearly doesn't consider that the other person(s) put an effort into being on time as well and otherwise could've worked/stayed at home a while longer just the same.

One thing to bear in mind is that "late" is fairly culturally dependant. The standard deviation for "on time" is very different in the US, France, Brazil, etc.

Never met a recruiter who was as considerate of my time as I was of theirs. Interesting this one has the opposite problem.

This is the third time this article has been posted to HN. See prior discussions here:

http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1689274

http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5028939

Or maybe they are depressed. Best thing to do with someone who is depressed? Call them rude and selfish, of course.

Mobile phones can help: If you always know exactly where the other person is (not when the claim they'll get to the meeting), you can time your travel to match theirs. We really need an smartphone app for that, leveraging GPS.

It exists. It's called Glympse. http://www.glympse.com/

Works pretty well in my limited experience with it.

Yeah I can be, and that's one of my flaws. I'm only human, but I hope my good qualities outweigh my bad enough for the writer of this article to remain my dear and valued friend.

Is it really getting _worse_? People have always been late.

And the post mixes business with pleasure: A staff meeting and a party are quite different things.

Living in Puerto Rico would kill this man.

tl;dr: rant about people who are ok to be late all the time.

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