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Comment by swies | Hacker News Reader

Y Combinator also funded our solution to crapware.

Basically we automate multiple installers and decline toolbars just like you would.

Users range from the nontechnical to NASA. We even have a huge blind user base because these installers are frequently hell to navigate with a screenreader.

We make money selling a Pro version with extra features to businesses and school IT departments. It works well and aligns us nicely with our users' interests.

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I'm very surprised to learn that ninite is YC funded. Thanks for a great product. And I say this on behalf of many less-technical friends, as well.

So YC is like the crack dealer who also runs his own rehab clinic. Pretty smart.

That would be more like selling crapware removal apps, which is already a common scam.

Ninite is more like pasteurization.

Ninite is great and has saved me time in the past. What exactly does this have to do with the article? Are you implying that since Y Combinator funded non-junk applications that it's okay to now fund junk applications?

It's nice move to fund both junk and solution for the junk... Some people say that antivirus software companies are the ones that make viruses, you know...

I think he was saying it was kind of a humorous contrast with YC essentially funding companies that compete in a way. The nerdy conclusion of this discussion would lead to a battle of the two platforms, one trying to install spam-ware and the other trying to prevent it...

Heh, maybe someone should apply to YC with a traffic sniffer/intercept/password cracker system so we have someone to battle, too :)

and both making MILLIONS! It's like some shadowy movie villian / arms dealer guy with a conspiracy to sell weapons to both sides!

Or like the Government of United States, which supplies arms to both the Government and the Rebels.

In places like Afghanistan, we actually put our own troops there, pay for PMCs and local national forces, and fund the enemy (Taliban, not AQ) via our supply contracts. That's even worse than just selling guns to everyone; we pay them both and then also sell them guns.

Its almost like there is a different motive than defeating the "enemy"...

"Constructive" =) http://xkcd.com/810/

I needed to post this here because we solve the problem in the article.

The problem is deceptive software. That we're funded by YC (or that InstallMonetizer is) is a red herring. But it sure does get some clicks!

On a perfect version of HN the top comments would be about solving the problems in posts, not elaborating on them.

Not to dump on HN though. This is a bug in human nature.

Glad to hear you like Ninite and that we saved you time, thanks for using it!

You're acting like Ninite can be used to install and remove any crapware from any installation under the sun. In reality Ninite only works with a select handful of applications. In other words, Ninite does not solve the problem that companies like InstallMonetizer create.

Except that, for most users, ninite provides (or, their goal is to provide) the installers necessary for the main pieces of software that cause these problems in the first place.

I'm one of those blind users who absolutely love Ninite. Have you ever considered managing the postinstall, too? I envisioned something which would monitor the %appdata% path where any user-specific data goes, as well as maybe the registry. Any changes get synced back to my shiny new Ninite account to be incorporated into the next install. Clearly this would take a bit of work, but since you're already imposing a selection process on your apps, and a majority of them are already well-behaved in terms of how they manage their data, it doesn't seem impractical. Ninite is generally the first thing that I run on a new Windows install. Pulling in my data feels like a natural part of this, and if you could get some kind of reasonable implementation worked out -- a background service syncing %appdata% regularly, a simple merge model which simply picks a winner instead of trying to reconcile the changes, etc, at first blush it seems quite workable.

Glad to hear you like it. We think about configuration stuff like this from time to time, but I'm pretty sure getting all the details right would take years. So we haven't made the leap yet.

Just wanted to add my thanks for a great product. We are a pro license holder where I work, I believe.

Not sure if this was your point, but I assume that you are using a lot of MSI and Windows API hooks, in which case this is a great example of the flexibility and integration options of Windows being leveraged for the good, as opposed to the crapware blight, which must be as frustrating for Microsoft as it is for us.

Good point. The relative openness of win32 allows junkware but gives us enough slack to fight it too.

It does make for a noisier and more confusing ecosystem though. My mom's still better off using an iPad.

Thanks for using Ninite Pro!

So basically, they're funding the problem AND the solution. Pretty nifty business-wise, if not very ethical :)

Perhaps they wanted to learn more about the problem after funding the solution.

It took me a double-read to understand you meant "...funded our solution (to [crapware] junk like this): ninite.com"

Upon first reading, it sounded like "to junk like ninite"

Great stuff!

Thanks! Edited (hopefully) for clarity.

Does your proggy pull installers off your own site or those of the actual publishers? If it's former, it might've been nice if you put every .exe through a multi-engine virus scanner (like VirusTotal).

Apps are downloaded from the publishers. We validate files with SHA-1 hashes and digital signatures (where available) before using them.

Wow, thanks for the link to the great product!

So even on a platform that's opened up to applications, the threat of crapware can create a business case for a curated third-party app store :-)

Wow, I didn't realize ninite was YC. Awesome.

The things I want:

Let me install an older version of uTorrent.

Let me install Steam in another location, not default.

Current ninite installs all I need except those two.

Thanks for the clarification. My natural reaction after reading the post was to get worried what Ninite does, which I regularly use.

Could you please elaborate how exactly do you automate the installers? Do you modify the applications being installed?

We don't modify the apps. We run the installers in a hidden window and simulate the clicks to install them without toolbars.

Thanks for using Ninite!

Do you guys have an OSX version in the works?

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