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Comment by rayiner | Hacker News Reader

Awesome article, delivering harsh stinging truth: "As disappointed visitors and new employees discover, Silicon Valley is a dull and ugly landscape of low-rise stucco office parks and immense traffic-clogged boulevards. The fancy restaurants are in strip malls, like you'd find in Arizona or something."

Perfect description of the Valley. Somewhat better than say Northern Virginia, but by a hair.

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I remember my first trip to Silicon Valley in 1999. I have been to San Francisco before, but never outside the city. I had a job interview in Sunnyvale (I believe). Was super-excited since I loved San Francisco. As soon as I started driving in my rental car from SJC, I was shocked at the surroundings. I simply assumed SV was like SF.

I got the job offer, but rejected it. Never been back to SV until last year (not counting SJ). I actually live in California, but I will never move to the Bay Area.

Might want to take a look at north bay just to give yourself a good overall impression before jumping to that conclusion.

What constitutes the north bay? I've been to Marin and Sonoma counties and like them both. I go to SF every now and then, but I just never stop in SV although I drive through it.

My priorities are different from 1999. And while I no longer wish to live in SF, I am still avoiding SV. The primary reason is price.

Rang so true for me too. Growing up in London, the valley seemed like the centre of the universe and somewhere I'd eventually want to move to, but when I first visited in 1993 for Apple's WWDC and went exploring I was massively disappointed. ISTR I described it to friends back home as "Like Slough but with better weather". On the other hand I totally adored San Francisco.

I've spent a fair bit of time in both places since then and it's not changed my view much.

"Somewhat better than say Northern Virginia, but by a hair."

In my experience of 2011 (visiting Santa Clara), quite a lot better than NoVA (where I lived at the time), but for the opposite reason than I think you'd say: everything in the Valley seemed open and spread out and inviting, rather than crowded and dirty, like NoVA feels. NoVA is just a step above cities I've been in, such as DC and NYC; the Valley is much more relaxing.

Are you talking about Arlington/Alexandria or "real Northern Virginia" (Vienna, Tyson's Corner, etc)? The former are really just part of D.C. They are as densely populated as the city proper, and were legally part of D.C. until Virginia took the land back right before the Civil War. Arlington is where D.C.'s high-rises are (as a result of the stupid building height restriction in the city proper) and is well-integrated into the city's subway network.

Of course, Alexandria and Arlington are also the only tolerable places in Northern Virginia.

As a native Richmonder, I take umbrage to this comment.

I haven't lived in Richmond for a long time, but every time I go back, the better it seems to get. It's got a burgeoning cultural scene (music,food), and a beautiful river running directly through the city.

Fixed! Richmond does indeed seem on the upswing. I started visiting it more recently, since I have a friend from there, and I swear it didn't look like this when I was growing up: http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3193/2701624794_d30b623cfa_z.j....

I agree, Richmond is a great city and Charlottesville in my opinion is more tolerable than northern VA.

It's pretty patronizing, as a Virginian, to hear somebody say that Alexandria is an extension of DC. Alexandria far predates DC and there was strong opposition to its integration (Arlington didn't exist at the time; the entirety of Arlington County was part of Alexandria).

Also, perhaps you find Arlington/Alexandria to be the only "tolerable" places in Northern Virginia because they are the only urban parts of this area. If you care about fishing more than clubbing, there are far more desirable places to be (not to say I don't do some great fishing here in Alexandria myself).

Well, you educated at least one person :) I will stop calling Alexandria DC. My dad lives there, but I tell myself he lives in DC and not NoVa.

I grew up in Vienna/Mclean, and honestly everyone I know from there says they grew up in D.C. They might admit they grew up in the "D.C. suburbs" if prodded. Regardless of the underlying political divisions, northern virginia is today merely a suburban outgrowth of D.C.

Nobody is denying that northern Virginia is part of the DC Metro area. That doesn't make it magically not Virginian any more than it makes Prince George's county, etc. not part of Maryland. Your friends would say they were from DC, or the DC area, because that is accurate. Also, DC being a notable city, this is more recognizable to folks not from around here.

I say I'm from Virginia because that's accurate and just as recognizable. But some people like to say they're from a big city even if they grew up far outside of it ... to each their own. Growing up in DC is a decidedly different experience from growing up in any part of Virginia and I'd find it disingenuous to claim either inaccurately.

You are confusing two different things.

Alexandria and Annandale, specifically. They're similarly crowded. The commute into DC from Vienna is ridiculous; I've never seriously considered living there. I currently commute from Fredericksburg to downtown DC, and while it's long, the vast majority of it can be done relatively cheaply on Amtrak, where there's wifi. Fredericksburg is far nicer to live in than most points closer to DC.

Alexandria and Annandale are not remotely alike ... Annandale is purely suburban and is the Korean cultural center of the east coast ... Alexandria is an old city with grid streets, Metro service, beside a river, etc. etc.

They're very alike. They both have metro service (Annandale has Dunn Loring, which I used all last winter, so I assure you it exists). The parts of Alexandria I've lived in are very similar, both the landmark mall area and the huntington area. There's a tiny portion of Alexandria up against the river with grid streets, but the bulk of it is more like Annandale than not.

The parts you mention are largely in Alexandria, Fairfax County, not The City of Alexandria, and they are quite different too. In any case because of its huge Korean influence, I don't know of any place in the area that is at all like Annandale.

This is the impression I got when I was curious and checkedout Google Streetview. I was a bit shocked by it.

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