Show HN: Former R&D manager for Xbox Kinect sensors, this is my new project | Hacker News Reader

Show HN: Former R&D manager for Xbox Kinect sensors, this is my new project

indiegogo.com

28 pointsmmachlin37 comments

Quick thoughts from an active runner (70-80 miles/wk):

- Figuring out when my shoes wear down is not, IMO, a big problem. I can look at the soles and tell or I know after about 500 miles it's time to switch it up.

- That said, it is incredibly important to switch shoes (or replace soles) when they wear down. I've been fortunate to not run into too many injuries, but I've been hobbled more than once by not taking the time to get new shoes. There is definitely an opportunity for some shoe company online to send me an email every X months with a 20% of coupon for the SAME PAIR of shoes I always buy. I'm sure they could figure out how serious of a runner someone is by the shoes they buy or repeat purchases.

- Now, I might buy one of these to see what kind of data it stores because I believe the future of pedometers/activity tracking is they'll be cheap enough they'll come built into shoes. In 5-10 years I expect to buy shoes that come with a $5 pedometer/tracking device built in and that would be a killer feature. No FitBit to wear, etc., just something that shoes come with. That'll be awesome.

Thanks for your feedback.

If you're running a 70+ hours a week we would consider you more then an active runner :).

As I mentioned in a different reply, this is our MVP. I invite you to follow our progress and as we move into the future version of the device you'll see much more value from our pod.

amateur runner/triathlete here:

- i do agree that this is not a real problem. i do exactly as you say, i check my soles every now and then, and if i see any deterioration, the shoes go straight to the bin. i wouldn't be a user of this product, having said that;

- your idea of "email (me) every X months with a 20% of coupon for the SAME PAIR" i think is a great idea. i tend to buy 2/3 pairs of the same running shoe every time. if instead i could establish a rule that after x distance i get sent a new pair that would be another thing off my to-do list. there is definitely a subscription model here somewhere.

Though I completely agree with you, the problem these guys are trying to solve is when does the mid-sole break down, which can happen before your shoes look worn.

The bigger problem is that depending on the shoes and milage and runner, I believe the destruction of the shoe will vary.

Having said that, I too don't think there is a market here, but think your idea of a discount on my next pair of shoes is a great idea.

I'm an amateur runner. On average, run about 20 miles per week at a fairly good pace of 6-8 minutes/mile. Anyone would think that I go through a lot of shoes, but I don't. I have only changed shoes once in more than two years of running. All of my shoes have been asiics, which I can not stop recommending.

Now, what I have changed (like 6 times/shoe) are the insoles. Runners know that they are the secret to less injuries and comfortability. Right now, I have a pair of insoles that cost the same amount that the shoes did (and they weren't cheap). And worth every penny.

Do I need a product like this? No. Do I want it? I don't seem to see the real value in it. I guess you need to sell me better on it.

Now, if you could invent a passive sensor for my insoles then that would be great. Sort of like something that changes colors when the insole stops cushioning the impact as well as it should I would pay $50 for a reusable one.

I would check the sole of your shoes. Based on the way many people strike the pavement with their foot, the shoe's sole wears out unproportionally. It's possible that you have a balanced, proper foot strike so it's not a problem, but I pretty certain that majority of the runners aren't as lucky.

As a fellow runner, I invite you to follow our progress, I think you will be pleasantly surprised by what our roadmap holds.

Will you be sharing the marketing aspects of the crowd-funding campaign with the community here?

We do not consider ourselves marketing experts but will be happy to share whatever we learn.

If you're looking for someone who has been successful, have you seen this:

http://www.fourhourworkweek.com/blog/2012/12/18/hacking-kick...

Thank you for the link.

I believe that we learn more from our failures than from our success. Though I dont think you will fail. But learning about your experience and the learning process would positively impact all.

Interesting product.

Observation: Am I wrong in thinking that both amateur and serious runners keep a general idea of how far they've run (just like in the video, "Hi I'm Meir and I run 80 miles a week"). If that's the case, then he'll need to replace his shoes every 5 weeks (given a 400 mile limit). Even if he's got races or marathons or friendly runs between then, he's still got about 200 miles of wiggle room. For someone who just runs for general health (say every other day at a rate of 2 miles per run), one's shoe will last at least a year upwards to two years. At that point, aren't most people thinking of getting a new shoe anyways?

Question: While I like the medical bracelet idea, how does that actually become implemented in real life/what usecases do you guys see being used? The benefit of a medical bracelet is that LEO or medical professional can immediately identify what is wrong (he's having a seizure, check his bracelet, it might be due to diabetes). Is there a precedent for a LEO to take out his laptop which is presumably connected to the department's network and plug in an unknown and unsecured USB storage device?

Thanks for the feedback. Regarding your observations, while you are right, I don't run 80 miles a week all year long, me as others use few pairs of running shoes, gym, track, field, race, walk, etc...that makes it very hard keeping records for all.

Regarding your question, the fifth death case in the US is wrong treatment, over 100K people a year. Speaking with emergency rooms and paramedics led us believe this is an essential feature, which they will use, the amount of data needed might be too big to have on a bracelet, and people keep forgetting them. a treatment usually is an on going one and not finished after the first few seconds, which I agree with you is the most critical one.

The question become data security though. If doctors, medics, or law enforcement officers randomly plug in devices from an unknown source into their network, that's a serious breach in security. I can't imagine that that would change even if they know about your product.

Am I misunderstanding the product, or does it look like it solves not that much of a big problem? So, this device let's you track how long you've been running on a particular pair of shoes and when they would wear out, so you can have them replaced on time.

How different is this from installing an app on your smartphone and tracking the miles walked (on that particular pair of shoes)?

Could someone please clarify? Given the fact that this is a product coming from a big-shot (or an ex-bigshot?) at Microsoft, I am somewhat disappointed (I was expecting something radically different)

Everyone must start with an MVP. We wanted to be very cautious with what we promise and can deliver for the first version, so we're only including the basic functionality. Please follow our progress to see the radically different things that are coming up in the future.

However, even this "basic" product already has advantages over having a phone. You lace it to your shoe and forget about it. No need to have the phone on you while you're running, remembering to start/stop the app that counts your mileage. What if you have two pairs of shoes, than the mile counting app will not be all that useful.

Just use one of a thousand other pedometers that attach to shoes? Really disappointing that you left working on something cutting edge to produce something that countless other companies already make. Good luck to you, though.

I'm not really your market anyway. I wore out my knee doing track in school and can only run on my forefoot now. This eliminates the need for shoe padding since you just cushion your step using your ankle as a shock absorbing hinge sort of. Have had no injuries since moving to Nike Free and then Vibram Five Fingers and I don't replace them until I wear through the soles.

What a weird comment - critique of his career decision, admission that you're not in his market, and a pretty irrelevant backstory.

I run 20-30 miles/wk, and have a very different take on this than bialecki -- I find when to rotate my shoes really problematic. Explanation: I log every single workout and know exactly how many miles I run per week, but the issue is that I actively rotate between 2-3 pairs of shoes (one of my previous running coaches once told me that you should never run in the same pair of shoes back to back, and rotating has worked very well to help me avoid injury). In 2012, I ran around 1000 miles, but I honestly have very little idea what the distribution of the miles was between my shoes (keeping in mind that I might wear one pair for a 10 mile distance run, and another for a 3 mile track workout). Looking at the wear on the soles generally helps, but this method is crude at most.

Thus, for the runner who has one pair of shoes and logs their workouts, I agree that this device has little if no use. For someone like me, I would appreciate a solution where I could attach this to each pair and "set and forget it". A $15 or below price point is an attractive solution, especially if these devices have a long life (multi-year).

Another data point: I bought shoes, the guy at the running store said to get a new pair in about 500 miles. I marked down my year-to-date distance traveled in my fitbit and got a new pair when I had gone about 600 miles (some padding for when I wasn't wearing my running shoes). Personally, this hack worked well enough that I wouldn't buy this sensor.

Has potential.

Could you add an "ICE" button on the device to scroll key information - e.g. contact details, medical conditions etc. without having to plug it in.

Also inclusion of personal attack alarm could be additional benefit (e.g. pressing ICE button twice)

This is great feedback...we actually have these features in the pipe, but wanted to present as low cost device possible for start, something people will be willing to spend on top of their new running shoe purchase. We have currently 3-4 characters display and browsing information over 4 letters might be too annoying...again thanks for a great feedback.

Hi guys. This is my new startup. I'm happy to answer any questions that you may have about it.

In your calibration tests against GPS, what sort of error do you see after 500 miles of accelerometer data?

Initial test showed over 95% accuracy, and we are working on make it even better. On one hand it's not intends to be instead of your GPS to count each and every run mileage, even though you can. BTW, it will clearly count also treadmill runs, while a GPS will not...

After training on three five mile data sets, I was able to get very accurate speed/distance estimates for subsequent runs (say 99%+).

The method? 1st derivative of accelerometer data to determine cadence. Then correlate cadence with actual speed with a simple linear regression when GPS data was available.

This was more intended for dead reckoning on a wrist mounted device, though. We had a 3 axis accelerometer and a 3 axis magnetometer.

How waterproof is it? Will it survive an absent-minded trip in my washing machine after a muddy run?

it is waterproof for rain/snow/storm, but it is not built for swimming :-)

Would it be possible to have a future iteration that can survive the Scylla and Charybdis of washing machines?

I literally just remembered that I forgot to move my Nike+ sensor the last time I washed my shoes.

What challenges did you face (I am sure you did) to make this low cost?

Cool project! Aside from price, is there a big difference between this and say, Nike+?

great question, For Nike, the issues are: 1. The Nike+ does not have the digital tag feature so there is no emergency information available. 2. The Nike+ is much more expensive. If you already own one then you may benefit from their mileage counting but if you do not you can get this functions (plus the digital health tag) for significantly less money. 3. The MilestonePod offers an on the shoe display for constant update and reminders. Also, with Nike you have to run with a smartphone, our device is self contained. 4. The Nike+ is a Nike product built primarily for Nike shoes. It can work with other shoes but you need to attach it to the shoe in a way that it was not meant to be used and I have heard it impact accuracy.

Thanks for the feedback.

This is very interesting. As a runner myself I can see a lot of application here. Especially at the price tag of $15, and re-usable for different shoes its almost a no brainer to grab.

Now, if it could make me run faster....

Thanks for your feedback. very excited to get this up and running

Related question: What did you choose indiegogo over Kickstarter?

Kickstarter implemented new rules in late September (you may have seen their "Kickstarter Is Not a Store" blog post and since then it is very hard for tech projects to get accepted on their site.

So far, Indiegogo has been awesome. We've spoken with their staff a few times and response time and quality has been excellent. A very good group of folks.

I heard about the new rules, but since it seems you have an actual prototype, not just some renders, I guessed that wouldn't be a problem for this project. Not saying you made a wrong choice, just interested. Thnx for the answer!

Looks very cool. For the cost it seems like a no-brainer. I usually wait until a feel the shoe is too old before replacing, that may be too late.

Can't you just flip over the shoe?

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