Japan's ninjas heading for extinction | Hacker News Reader

Japan's ninjas heading for extinction

bbc.co.uk

107 pointsbitcartel63 comments

Maybe they are lying about not having successors. If I were a sneaky ninja, that's what I would do, have a secret heir.

That makes a disturbing amount of sense. What would the need to ninja be in modern times though?

Ninja are fundamentally political tools. As long as we have politics, someone will be interested in their services, I am sure.

First thing that comes to mind is "Confessions of an Economic Hitman." Currently reading.

IMO, it's not very good, especially for the HN crowd. The Big Short and The Shock Doctrine both provide a much more technical discussion of some of the same economic malaise while remaining far more riveting.

Disagree. I loved it. Recently even had the chance to discuss it's opening (Indonesian) chapter with a current Indonesian consul. He basically confirmed it, saying "we knew they weren't here for our benefit, but had little choice [...] It was a very costly decision. We hope we don't have to do that again." Quite the discussion. I like diplomats, they're always amusing.

Never said the premise was wrong; rather the author substitutes a thorough explanation on how and why this stuff happened with humblebragging. For Indonesia, The Shock Doctrine goes into much a much more detailed discussion of the IMF bailout.

Yeah, all good. Guess I am kind of just saying "here I am, an example of someone who doesn't need that level of detail and found the text both readable and enjoyable, and even recently held a conversation with someone in the know about it". Not un-recommending your more-detail-here meme.

Not really, unless you broaden the definition of a ninja to everyone who does sabotage, for example those who sank the Rainbow Warrior on behalf of the French government: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sinking_of_the_Rainbow_Warrior

So, sabotage and assasination - yes, but more modern techniques replaced those of ninja.

For me it's not as much the tools used (since the techniques of seaking around places should still be the same) but the mindset behind. So maybe there's no demand for classical ninjas now. For Ninjas using Ninjutsu skills and modern tools at the same time, I think there is as much demand today as ever (on a international scope, in Japan I can't tell).

They would serve the same purpose as the CIA and MI6 if employed by the Japanese government. Corporate espionage would be another good use.

Same as the need for gurus and rockstars in modern times...

Provide silly monikers to the trendy web-coding crowd?

Hatsumi has not yet named a successor.

For those interested, www.kutaki.org is the primary forum for bujinkan/hombu dojo practitioners...

This made me smile.

Reminded me of one the best games on the C64... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Last_Ninja

Minor correction on the article, it's been said that they actually seldom wore all black, as that would make you particularly conspicuous. It's more likely they wore an appropriate costume that would allow them to 'hide in plain site' if needed

Indeed. What's really interesting is that the convention of wearing black is thought to have come from bunraku theater, where the stagehands wore black and were "invisible" by convention.

For an example of modern day "puppetry" on Japanese TV.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lYWvygAbolM

"teenage mutant puppeteers turtles" doesn't quite have the same ring...

The article states they used a dark navy blue dye. See the sidebar "Five nearly-true ninja myths":

"Ninja clothing was made to be light and hard to see in the dark - but jet-black would cause the form to stand out in moonlight, so a dark navy blue dye was usually used"

Even that's probably not completely correct. If you want to blend in with what's behind you, you should look similar to what's behind you. The rules for this don't change much at night - in dim light or bright light, you still don't want to be a strikingly different shade to your surroundings!

Both disguise and stealth techniques were taught. It's obvious they would mix with the local population and look inconspicuously most of the time, only breaking into houses at night is what called for a dark shozoko.

Nothing but Pirate propaganda.

Those guys aren’t ninjas and they aren’t dying out. Blackwater has hired lots of ninjas.

A ninja is just some dude who gets paid money to get dirty using the best tech and skills available at the time. If they had Glocks in the 15th century ninjas would have been popping caps in Samurai ass. They threw metal stars and swung swords because that’s all they had.

The BBC must have been really desperate to report on some anachronistic pajama wearing idiots.

I was thinking the standard military's special forces - although certainly some Blackwater people are former special forces. That's essentially what the ninjas were: soldiers for hire that specialized in infiltration with small teams.

I think the "specialized in infiltration with small teams" is the more important part than "for hire", which is why I thought of the standard military's special forces, and not modern-day mercenaries. Feudal Japan's customs made the "for hire" part necessary, but modern day customs do not.

Heh, that's not what the shinobi were or their primary role. The military stuff were their day jobs, so to speak. The art and what it does is much weirder than that. The Iga lineages were said to specialize in the small team tactics, whereas the Koga lineages were much more interesting.

There are pretty good historical evidence showing legit bushi (legit, as in being backed by the ruling power) who went undercover on covert ops. They may or may not have had anything to do with the Iga or Koga folks at that time. One of them ended up carrying (or founding) a famous sword school.

To be fair, there are spec ops folk who train with lineages in the US. Does that make them ninjas? I suppose so.

Where can one find out about "The art and what it does"? I had a quick look on wikipedia but didn't see anything.

Oddly enough, my first thought was to suggest talking to your local public librarian. See if they can help you find some good books on the subject?

Chozanshi's Demon's Sermon on the Martial Arts translated by William Scott William. My friends have found that book awesome. Hell, so have I, and I'm not training in the lineage. Chances are, that book is gooblygook to you and you're better off with something gentler like Dan Millman's Way of the Peaceful Warrior instead.

I'm being a bit of a trickster here. @samsteve has some direct sources.

The book recommended to me when I was doing Ninjutsu was "Ninjutsu: History and Tradition" [1]. It's written by Masaaki Hatsumi himself.

[1] http://www.amazon.co.uk/Ninjutsu-History-Tradition-Masaaki-H...

I think the phrase "Japan's ninjas" in the headline makes it sufficiently clear who the subject of the article is, and found it a pretty interesting historical look at a group. The clan and passed-down-knowledge stuff is rather different than most of the special ops stuff training I'm aware of.

I don't know why you use such a sneering tone.

Take away the sneer, and you're actually agreeing with Soke Hatsumi.

(I've done a little Bujinkan training under a Sensei who also travels to spend a few weeks a year with Masaaki Hatsumi)

Well...

False. There are a lot of nuances and factors to the definition of a "ninja" - the historical use of the skills of ninja as a political/insurgent tool of subterfuge and assassination is one aspect.

However for those involved in bujinkan for a long time - it is about mastery of movement.

The principles of movement taught by bujinkan are lightyears ahead of what you see in most martial arts. They are also subtle ad complex and easily confused.

BJJ is the modern Tae Kwon Do - the McMartial Art of our time.

There is a lot more to Bujinkan than comparing it to mercenaries.

Bujinkan teaches you how to actually be a better and more complete Human. It is much more than what the surface history teaches.

(I have been in Bujinkan for 20 years)

I was wondering if/when there was going to be a representative showing up for comments.

I agree with samstave. I have been practicing Bujinkan for over 15 years. It is more about body awareness and economy of motion than learning how to hurt someone in multiple ways. There will always be the Ashida Kim's of the world.

Bujinkan is also not just about Ninjutsu. It is actually a collection of 9 different martial arts ryūha under one school. Only 3 of the ryūha are considered Ninjutsu or Ninpō ryūha. Of the other 6 ryūha some were of samurai family origins.

In Bujinkan there are those tend to focus on the whole ninja aspect and they don't tend to last too long. Then there are those who start out interested in the ninja aspect of the martial art and find an amazing system that has a whole lot more to offer than black Gis and tabi shoes.

I'd be interested in learning more from an armchair. Any suggestions? I'm pretty familiar with martial art philosophy in general, so it's more the specifics that I'm interested in.

You could read some of Hatsumi's books, or Jack Hoban's...

Cool--I trained for around 10 years in the Bujinkan. I'll also add that they transfer--I went to a Parkour course recently and our rolls work rather nicely :-)

You're talking without knowing the facts.

While the image we westerns have about ninjas is largely a myth, what people nowadays call "ninjutsu" is actually a collection of techniques that made their way onto modern jujutsu, kenjutsu, etc., plus a variety of more obscure knowledge (exotic/makeshift weapons, explosives, stealth). Calling these people - whose heritage can be traced back to that period - "pajama wearing idiots" is a disservice.

I think you'll find Blackwater are actually honourless ronin.

Someone is not keeping up with the times.

Blackwater -> Xe Corp -> Academi

See the 15th episode of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_Weapon for a little more on Masaaki Hatsumi

If you are interested in Bujinkan and Hatsumi, the best book in the world: "Understand? Good. Play!"

That episode of Human Weapons was really funny to watch. It was even funnier watching my friends roll their eyes in disgust.

The two dudes tried to bust in on a training session, swaggering in, and didn't know how dumb they were being. They got passed on to someone else who was amused by all of this. And obviously did not have enough footage to do what they wanted, so they had to backfill it with nonsense.

You're better off tracking down Chris Crudelli's Mind, Body, Kick-Ass Moves. Hatsumi liked him enough to personally play with and terrorize him.

I like the sidebar to the submitted article, "Western ninja-inspired nonsense." Popular culture references to Japanese ninja are not likely to be accurate descriptions of ninja technique. I first read about ninja ( 忍者 ) in the very interesting book Asian Fighting Arts

http://www.amazon.com/Asian-Fighting-Arts-Donn-Draeger/dp/08...

in the 1970s. I think the Western sources have always exaggerated the most glamorous aspects of traditional Japanese culture and neglected the day-by-day realities.

Oh yeah. Draeger ... Heheh.

Or that's what they want you to think...

I thought that ninjas were a myth?

I thought they were peasants who armed themselves instead of some well trained assassins...

Yes that is my understanding of their history. Peasants who were being hassled by the Samurai and so developed these skills for defense. Later they moved on to doing jobs for hire.

Myth, unfortunately (for it does make a good story). There were many different clans in a certain mountainous region of Japan that we retroactively classify as "ninja". Many of them were, in fact, samurai. Other individuals from that region didn't have claim to familial titles that would make them samurai, but offered their services in combat and were often rewarded with land grants in return, making them samurai.

You see, "samurai" was just a word for the gentrified upper class at the time. It wasn't until later, after unification that a caste system came into existence and "samurai" became associated with special clothing, top knots, and the right to wear (but not use) swords.

[Source: I was a Japanese language & history major at one time, and studied a number of years in the Bujinkan.]

EDIT: Okay, partial myth. Peasants who armed themselves fought for hire does describe the humble origins of some schools. It was the "peasants hustled by the samurai" part I was responding to as a myth.

Bullshit. They're just getting better at hiding.

I prefer to be a Samurai over a Ninja.

Finally, an article about real ninjas. :)

If they are having trouble finding work, perhaps they should learn Ruby.

Well, they'd better hope they're rockstar ninjas if they want to get a job.

(skype disappearing ninja icon)

On the plus side, pirates are still going strong.

Lol I actually spilled my tea :)

Aww poor ninjas. It must totally suck to, you know, die like that.

My wife is Japanese, and her first name is Yumi. I'll just leave it at that.

Her name doesn't necessarily mean "bow", though. "Yumi" is a reading of many first names, like 裕美 (something like "full of beauty") or 由美, which are more common than 弓 (bow).

I know. I was being silly.

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