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Comment by djmdjm | Hacker News Reader

I hope this doesn't mean further abandoning the Thinkpad design values (centered around excellence in functional design) to compete on the ones that Apple has been so successful on (excellence in visual design). If they do they won't win and will mess up an excellent and unique brand in the process.

They've already started down this road IMO, dropping their near-perfect keyboard for a trendy chiclet one in the x230. To be fair, it's a great chiclet keyboard, but it doesn't have the action of the old ones.

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I don't know but my Macbook Pro feels pretty functional. Things like the Magsafe power connector or the superb touchpad don't just look pretty.

Only because it looks nice doesn't mean it's useless. And only because it's functional doesn't mean it has to look like a plastic brick from an 80s sci-fi movie.

I don't think he was saying that Macs don't have good functional design, rather that excellent visual design is the top priority. While Macs do work great, there are some instances where it's apparent that they valued aesthetics over functionality, such as nice-looking but short-lived power cord cables.

I once spilled some coffee (like 50 milliliters or so) on a top of the line Macbook Pro. The keyboard and the DVD drive simply stopped functioning. I got lucky too, because I shut it down immediately, pulled the battery out and then I let it dry for a whole day.

Right now I own a cheap Asus for instance and it has swallowed tea, coffee and water. Besides the keyboard getting a little sticky, nothing happened. I probably got lucky, since I am talking about a piece of shit low-end laptop.

But Thinkpads are designed for accidents. The T line has to pass military tests. Soldiers used Thinkpads in Irak. That plastic brick from the 80s can take abuse like no other laptop on the market.

And besides, I do not care about how shinny and good looking my laptop is. I do care about functionality. Macbooks are great for their touchpad and their high resolution screens. But thinkpads are great in this regard - great keyboard, awesome pointing stick, HD+ available on all models, not to mention things I wish Macbooks had, like the Ultrabay, which allows you to easily put something else in place of your DVD drive. Something like an SSD, or maybe an extra battery.

Something else I love about Thinkpads and HP EliteBooks, something which even low-end models have (ThinkPad L series, Thinkpad Edge, HP ProBook), is the easy access to the internals, without voiding the warranty. On Thinkpads, even the low-end ones, it's really easy to change the hard drive or to add an extra memory stick. On ProBook you don't even need a screwdriver. This is useful not just for upgrading it, but also for cleaning the internal fan and other maintenance stuff. This allows businesses to have in-house hardware support, without having issues with the provided warranty.

There's a lot of things I like about MacBooks. But IMHO, if I were operating a business, I would give MacBooks only to developers that know what they are doing and really want one.

The older ThinkPad keyboard design is the example I thought of immediately. The classic ThinkPads had keyboards designed for people who touch type— they were supremely functional. Not a "buckling spring" IBM Model M keyboard— they use foam rubber under the keys like all other modern keyboards, I suspect—but still more responsive and better for people like me who don't need to look at the keyboard when programming or writing. Now they've replaced their time-tested, solid keyboards for Mac-style "chiclet" keys. Agreed; it's just not the same.

I would kill fr a laptop with a model M keyboard built into it. There must be some way to simulate spring action in a thin keyboard setup.

Most of us don't need to look at the keyboard when writing, chiclet keyboards are completely ok for that. You don't really need the peaked edges to find the keys.

Sure, you don't have to have the peaked edge keys. But that's like saying you don't need a tactile keyboard at all. Those high, peaked keys with responsive feedback are perfect for me (I type 70-80 wpm).

Having a W530 and typing a lot, I can tell you that I will never wish to go back to the old keyboard (having had multiple older T-series).

The new chiclet is way better when you have gotten used to it. As usual you only feel the difference when you go back (in my case to my second-newest one, the T61, which I occasionally use for other stuff)...

As a long-time ThinkPad user, the new keyboard (which I have on my X1 Carbon) is not nearly as big of a problem as you're making it out to be. I got used to it fairly quickly, and I think I like it better now.

But more importantly, Lenovo has really raised the bar in terms of size and weight with the X1 Carbon. I don't think they are abandoning functionality at all.

I also own an x1 carbon -- it's a great laptop, linux runs on it flawlessly. If the battery was changable it would be perfect.

I've not had a problem with the keyboard, and I also own a thinkpad with a "real" thinkpad keyboard. I wouldn't say I prefer one over the other, they're both solid keyboards.

Thanks for telling me that - I fucking loved the keyboard on my previous ThinkPads, so that I a deal killer for me.

Typeing on that keyboard was soo nice.

I love the x220 keyboard, but the chiclet is getting a lot of praise. The spring keyboards are somewhat fragile and get messy, so it might even be an upgrade.

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