Apple revamps the iMac, Mac mini and Mac Pro with no fanfare | Hacker News Reader

Apple revamps the iMac, Mac mini and Mac Pro with no fanfare

venturebeat.com

54 pointspeter12362 comments

For HN visitors, I think one of the most interesting questions is what this says about Apple's business/marketing model:

?Does the lack of fanfare for these releases mean that something more worthy of fanfare is planned relatively soon? In recent months iMacs have been in top 3 sales positions on Apple's home page. And for me, the $1500 price on a 24" iMac is a great break on something I need for a instructional machine.

Could they really just be saving a few bucks and some labor by omitting fanfare? ...or are they focusing on some MacAir / netbook / iPhone extravaganza in next few months?

If they held a big event to introduce these new models -- or just about any other product -- the headline would be the absence of Steve Jobs, which is probably not what Apple's PR department is hoping for right now. If they bring out a tablet PC or something equally dramatic, they might want to risk that, with the spin 'Even without Jobs we can still generate excitement.' But for ordinary improvements to the existing hardware line, a big Jobsless presentation would be a negative, on balance.

My feeling is that when Jobs comes back he is going to 'bring something dramatic with him.' The fanfare surrounding his return would be the perfect opportunity for Apple to release something significant that would ride the publicity wave.

I wouldn't be surprised if you're right, but this may carry the risk that it would reinforce the perception that Apple is all Steve Jobs and they can't innovate without him.

My feeling is that Jobs is never coming back, and shareholders are once again deluding themselves about his health, and that I should short their stock because of it again.

Excellent point. The downside, however, of not having Tim MC an smallish event such as these upgrades is that it puts more pressure on whatever attempts to be the standard Apple-fare fanfare.

The longer the wait the more Steve's absence at such an event will be felt. But... if they can get him back in July or so... and they have a major announcement... that'll make for a huge hype opportunity. And yes: it's just playing with fans' minds. That's okay by me: I'm just up for learning about marketing - and Apple's certainly one place to do it.

Also, when you're offering less for more, you don't want to shout about it too much. Prices have gone up (by large amounts for some, esp. the UK) , specs have gone sideways in a few cases (bottom two iMacs with integrated graphics, headline clock speed drops on the Pros, etc)

I swear they do this stuff exactly so that people like you keep trying to figure out a pattern and keep their brand at the front of your mind for long enough to go subconscious.

EDIT: I'm about half serious and half joking. In any case, this isn't intended to be a (lame) attempt at trolling.

I think the lack of fanfare is mostly due to the fact that these are mostly upgrades of the specs/reduction of price of existing products: the form factor stays the same so there's no real point in making it a big event if there wasn't anything else to announce otherwise.

They have been doing that for many years, always more or less quietly. The thing is that people still talk about it anyway...

To me, the big win is the new TimeCapsule:

  * MobileMe 'back to Mac' integration
  * 802.11n
  * guest Wi-Fi feature
  * dual-band Wi-Fi
  * 500GB TimeCapsule
  * Wi-Fi printer hub
  = $299

Sold.

Thank you for calling that to my intention. When I went to Apple Store the default data showed - for the 1TB: $499.

For small home use the 500GB @ $299 - does sound great: way better bargain than an Airport Extreme. Why ever buy one of those now?

You can get an Airport Extreme for $179 and a 500GB USB external on Newegg for $60, the combination of which would provide all the features of a Time Capsule for $239. Granted you have to deal with two devices and a decreased throughput to the disk, but for casual use it may be enough for some people.

(you can also get 1TB externals on Newegg starting at $95, for a total of $274, a significantly lower price than the $499 1TB Time Capsule)

Are you sure it will be compatible with time machine?

Yes, they are compatible. I have a 500GB drive hooked up to my AirPort extreme right now and it's recognized to work with TimeMachine.

Unfortunately I need to run my network in mixed mode, 2.4ghz Wireless N so transfers are much slower.

I believe so. Just make sure that the Airport Extreme is running at least version 7.3.1 of the firmware. I personally use an Extreme and a WD MyBook as my backup solution and while I wouldn't say it's fast I've never had issues where it wouldn't work.

Once again the premium you pay for the better models is totally ridiculous. I don't mind paying for quality, but I'm sorry, the difference between a 320GB vs 120GB HDD and 2GB vs 1GB RAM is not worth €200! In fact, I can buy the bigger HDD and RAM for about half that at retail, never mind the difference between the larger and smaller configurations.

I've been playing with the idea of getting a Mac Mini to replace my current media PC which can't handle HD video, but it looks like I'll still need to open it up if I want a decent spec.

"Once again the premium you pay for the better models is totally ridiculous."

Yes, ridiculous for you to pay the premium. But a great opportunity for you if you need a top-tier Mac and know how to upgrade RAM & HD -- which is the only way I buy mine.

From the company's standpoint, it makes sense: lower entry-level price; higher profit margin for items sold to those with more $ than tech-savvy. ::Keeps the company profit margins high while giving the self-upgraders a nice break.

It seems like on the new Mac Pros they're making this more difficult. Even if you're comfortable snapping in a few more parts you might have some limits.

If you notice the new RAM/CPU tray, on the quad-core entry level MP they only give you 4 slots for RAM, whereas on the 8 core they give you 8. I'm not sure if there is an extra socket on the tray to pop another CPU in or not, but I wouldn't be surprised if the answer was that you can't.

So it seems like you can't just buy the entry level and upgrade it past the top level on the cheap this time around, which is something to be upset about.

It's not entirely their fault - unlike previous Intel CPUs Nehalem has integrated memory controller. Thus if there is no second CPU there is no easy way to hook up the extra RAM.

I don't mind too much when it's actually relatively easy to upgrade. (though the attitude annoys me - what the hell am I supposed to recommend to my less tech savvy friends & family?) My white MacBook is currently running a 500GB HDD and 4GB RAM, all of which took me about 10 minutes to install.

With a Mac Mini, I'd need to get special tools (some kind of spatula I believe?) to get the damn thing open, and run a serious risk of ruining my warranty. Same thing for my girlfriend's iMac, at least for the HDD (you need to remove the screen with glass handling equipment apparently) - the RAM is easy at least, which was the main worry, there's always gigabit ethernet and the file server for disk space.

If its anything like the G4 and original Intel Minis (I own and have opened both), 2 putty knives will open it right and leaves no marks.

From discussion I remember reading way back when the g4 mini was originally launched, this will not void the warranty, but take that with a grain of salt.

Re the Mini - that was my experience, too - I'm more than willing to get out the screw drivers to do my own RAM upgrades, but when I need a putty knife just to open the box, I start to get squeamish.

"...the difference between a 320GB vs 120GB HDD and 2GB vs 1GB RAM is not worth €200!"

I thought the same thing, but it turns out the cheaper one only has 128MB for video, the more expensive one has 256MB.

The exchange rate makes it even worse, they are priced the same in Dollars and Euros. So that €799 model is $1000.

As a European, I'm already used to being fucked over for exchange rate on imported goods. ;) Don't forget the €599/€799 already include VAT (20% here) which I don't pay if it's a business expense. In this case, I can hardly buy my living room media centre in my business's name though.

It's a research tool, you're totally going to run Xcode and build iPhone apps on it...

Well, now I feel like kind of a schmuck for buying one a couple weeks ago.

So dual displays for the mini?

I still only see one DVI slot, so I don't think so. I could be wrong.

Edit: sure enough I am wrong, see reply.

There's a Mini DisplayPort as well. It's the smaller port to the right of the Mini DVI port. Adapters are available at the usual overinflated prices... I hope there will be more of a 3rd party aftermarket for these than for the Mini-DVI adapters.

So wait, the mini can do a dual display setup or does it just have two display ports?

It can do a dual display setup. Click on "compare" then on "complete specs" (2/3 of the way down) on the page for the Mac Mini here:

http://store.apple.com/us/browse/home/shop_mac/family/mac_mi...

"Connects to up to two external displays with digital resolution up to 2560 by 1600 via Mini DisplayPort to Dual-Link DVI Adapter or 1920x1200 via Mini DisplayPort, Mini-DVI to DVI Adapter, or Mini DisplayPort to DVI Adapter. Analog resolution (VGA) up to 2048 by 1536 using Mini DisplayPort to VGA Adapter or Mini-DVI to VGA Adapter."

Sweet! I got a mini back in Nov when I went freelance and I've been thinking of getting another, because they're so cheap that you can have a second just as a backup. This pushes me over the fence into actually getting one, can't wait.

Love minis. I've had a g4 (gave it away), an intel, about to order another.

FWIW, Fortune's take on the marketing decision is "clever thriftiness":

"Here’s a thrifty marketing strategy tailor-made for these troubled times.

"Rather than pay for all the accoutrements of a high-profile product roll-out — promotional media, special events, keynote speeches, etc. — just leak a few spy shots to obscure bloggers and let the Internet rumor mill do the heavy lifting."

http://apple20.blogs.fortune.cnn.com/2009/03/03/apples-new-m...

The laptop (MB, MBP) market is where it's at for Apple.

Something with even less fanfare: Apple actually bumped the specs on the MacBook Pro, too.

http://www.macrumors.com/2009/03/03/apple-quietly-bumps-15-m...

256GB SSD options for all MacBooks, and a CPU bump to both the higher-end MacBook Pro configurations for the same price as before.

I love my Macs, but man, I wish they would update on a more continuous basis. I have a 3 month old Mac Mini, and this is pretty frustrating.

I'm sure that's very frustrating, but I feel the lack of a pre-defined roadmap is actually one of Apple's _strong_ points. I've seen more than my fair share of weak/broken releases from companies trying to keep a schedule.

Another new (I think) thing is the Radeon 4870 GPU for the Mac Pro, now sold in the Apple store. Finally an upgrade path.

Funny that the Mac mini has FireWire, but the base MacBooks don't. Sigh...

Finally a Mini with 4G of RAM! I'll hold off until Snow Leopard, though.

Raising the prices and offering little new. Thanks Apple!

Am I missing something here? According to the article, the prices have fallen or remained the same, and Apple has upgraded all the hardware.

By chance, I was looking at Mac Minis in the UK online Store this morning (GMT), and the price of the lesser-spec'ed unit was £391. Now the price of the new lesser-spec'ed unit is £499.

It's a good thing the economist runs its purchasing power against burgers and not Apple hardware! Although that would be interesting for its own reasons.

You're getting screwed by the GBP exchange rate plunge. (some might say: correction, and having lived in the UK during times of the €1.50 pound, I'd tend to agree) Euro prices have stayed the same. And yes, ordering Apple gear via the UK store or UK Amazon was a bargain for mainland Europeans for a while because Apple only seems to adjust for fluctuations when they update products. Shows you what kind of mark-up they're using to be able to afford to do that. On the plus side, you'll be able to get cheap Apple gear from the continent if the pound picks back up.

Without wishing to belabour the point, the prices for the same unit (the lesser-spec'ed Mac Mini) also seem to have gone up in the Irish and German stores (to pick but two), from €499 to €599.

I just checked amazon.de and you're absolutely right, sorry. For some reason I thought the old minis were €599, too. 166MHz and 40GB more, the nvidia chip, and losing the remote are worth €100? Hmm.

Nevertheless, around 50% of the GBP 392->599 increase is down to correcting for the new exchange rate. Not that that helps you at all.

My thoughts exactly. And I've been a mac user for 22 years (since I was six).

I was hoping to see something new from the iMac line. Anything. A second display. Upgradeable hard drive. Consumer grade Raid 1 (y'know, like you'd see on a $1500 DELL tower.)

Very little to see here. And a high end iMac makes no sense. At that rate, you're almost buying their quad-core tower.

(But I suppose at the very high end, people don't buy Mac Pros as often as they do Mac Books, because they're usable for very long periods of time.)

Don't all iMacs support a second display?

Can't you daisy-chain two (or more) external drives in the FW800 port? I do that with FW400 on a PPC iMac. Doesn't OSX support RAID? I am quite sure the server version does.

And, you know, that Dell box will have Windows pre-installed. OSX is so much nicer.

Most iMacs support "Display Mirroring". Yup. Two monitors, in proximity (basically next to each other) showing the exact same thing. Very useful.

(Note: Apple tends to change this every hardware revision. So basically -- every OTHER revision of the iMac supports dual displays.)

I hadn't considered software FW RAID. I don't know if it would be better/worse than SATA RAID chipsets on modern PC motherboards these days. I have a feeling (being software RAID) that it would be slower than hardware RAID 1. And still, saying its capable to jury rig RAID (i mean, c'mon, for an additional fee, I could just buy a FW RAID array and just attach that.) is different from saying it supports it out of the box, like its price-competitive PC counterparts do.

Yes, OS X is nice. But the premiums on the hardware are looking a little dated considering everyone is slashing margins during a recession. OTOH, my Mac Book Pro is doing so well, I don't feel the need to upgrade, so I can afford to wait and buy used.

AFAIK, the display mirroring limitation hasn't existed since the switch to Intel. MacTracker indicates that every Intel iMac so far has supported extending the display in addition to mirroring.

That's good to know. Apple is always doing something stupid with one of its product lines. Its current MacBooks dropped firewire. So, a university I know (worked there) won't be ordering new MacBooks because they own so many Firewire only camcorders, and they let the students check out a camcorder and a macbook to make videos for class. Because people are complaining, it will probably come back next incarnation.

And then, after that, it'll probably be taken out.

It's been known to happen. The 15" PowerBook G4 came with a FW800 port, but was removed when the 15" MacBook Pro came out. Bowing to public pressure, Apple restored the port to the 15" when they upgraded to Core 2 Duo.

That mirroring thing is really weird. I remember having extended desktops on the G5 iMacs and I assume no meaningful features were droppped (perhaps HD playback on external monitors).

As for software RAID vs. hardware, current processors are usually so much faster than spinning disks that I suppose hardware RAID exists currently only on very high-end systems. As for the low-end systems, they make the processor do a lot of work, so, that more or less evens the playfield.

Macs also have a much longer useful life. I still use a G3 iMac that has been serving me flawlessly since it left the factory.

The iMac form factor has its own advantages which offset the extra power of the low-end Mac Pro.

Really? Like what? Like forcing you to throw out the 24 inch LCD when the computer is obsolete? Like a lack of upgradable anything (besides RAM)?

The iMac might have a unique form factor, but it doesn't necessarily convey any advantages other than aesthetics.

First, aesthetics are not negligible. The iMac has at least two fewer cables, is more easily shifted around, doesn't require finding space on the floor for a tower, takes up very little desk space, and is very quickly packed up for overnight or weekend trips. For people who need to take their computers with them a few times a year, but don't want to make the sacrifices or pay the higher costs for a laptop, it's useful. Just speaking for my own category.

Why the downmods?

For those outside the US, there's a significant price rise (In Australia, an iMac is now 25% more expensive than it was yesterday) with very little to show for it. I've got some friends who I've told to hold off buying because there was an update due soon, but this is just embarrassing.

with the economy in the state it's in today, I don't think many are contemplating a new computer. I thought they would wait until the fall. I'm not planning to upgrade until at least when 10.6 is released.

I don't know... I've budgeting money for a new tower for over a year now, waiting for Apple to finally refresh. I had to buy a used G5 on eBay as a stop gap in the interrum... now I can finally buy the machine which will probably be the last new Mac I'll ever own. (I think Moore's Law has finally run it course for home PCs, and most of the current development work is Web based anyways.)

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