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Comment by xvxvx | Hacker News Reader

‘he has described tracking exactly where viewers stop watching and rebuilding videos around those drop-off points.’

I’ve seen only clips of his videos here and there, but assumed he was somewhat naturally gifted in creating content that interested people. Reading this, and his obsession with algorithms, his job seems like a hellish nightmare.

I recently stumbled upon ‘book influencers’ on YouTube and same desperation is holding them hostage. There’s no way this is fun for anyone. Being so obsessed with clicks and likes and retention and whatever. Then trying to earn money from it all. I’d literally rather be a vagabond.

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I don't understand why this is surprising. I don't think you can become a YouTube influencer while ignoring the algorithm. It's absolutely not enough to be "naturally gifted" at creating interesting content, because your content will not get surfaced to more users unless the early engagement metrics are unnaturally good. You're always competing with clips that are engineered for engagement, so you have to play the same game.

This used to be different 10-15 years ago. I remember uploading some random stuff and getting 50k views. Now, I get 50 for essentially the same stuff.

And yes, there are some popular content creators who pretend not to care. I promise you that they spend a lot of time looking at metrics too.

I don’t think he is saying it’s not necessary to ignore the algorithms, but it must be a hellish job that isn’t any fun, which seems to be true.

Why hellish? Not that different from a CEO or a CFO obsessing over sales metrics. I think it's fair to say that it's unglamorous, and probably clashes with the perception that YouTubers are just hobbyists pursuing their passion, but that's more or less dead. Too much money at stake.

I get the impression that he enjoys it. He lives for the challenge. I think you have to in order to do what he has done.

I wouldn’t. It sounds hellish to me. But different strokes for different folks…

> but assumed he was somewhat naturally gifted in creating content that interested people

He wrote an internal handbook that circulated the Internet a few months back, in which he is describing exactly what he built: a data driven content optimization farm. He isn't creating honestly interesting content (or probably much at all, himself, these days) - he's speed-running some unholy blend of venture-capital risk taking approach with Wall Street level internal pressure. He gives his employees money to test ideas and aggressively iterate on them, while continuously accumulating a detailed model of how the algorithm can be gamed.

Or in short, his organization is social media's paperclip maximizer.

What’s crazy about it is that he already has more than enough money to do what he wants. He could scuttle his view-maxxing and just make what he loves to make and he’d still do well and live a lavish luxurious lifestyle with no worry for lost subscribers.

E.g., we see this with the way PewDiePie “retired.” My understanding is that he only makes videos that he wants and enjoys making these days.

But that idea assumes Mr. Beast isn’t just an amoral grifter who is in this job to do exactly what we see described here. He has no passion for making videos or the content of his videos, his passion is wealth and influence accumulation.

On the other end of the spectrum we see people like Technology Connections or Tim Traveler who are completely uninterested in sponsorships or marketing efforts and they get to just make the videos they love making. There is zero view optimization when Alec makes a 1 hour video about heat pumps. He knows there’s going to be massive drop-off and doesn’t care. It’s obvious to point out that Mr. Beast got his bag orders of magnitude above and beyond creators like that and could easily stop his insane operation and do the same thing.

You and I would call this a hellish nightmare but that’s not how narcissist and narcissist-adjacent folks feel about it.

To be that kind of rich you usually have to make not only your career but your life about making money. And then it becomes your self image. The illogical decisions happen because there's nothing left of you but continuing to make the number go up.

Some people are so rich all they have is money.

He has investors to pay back now, so I don't think he can just do whatever. If that were me, I would consider myself fucked. But in his case I suspect this is already what he wants to do.

> and just make what he loves to make

That is what he loves to make, there is nothing more to it.

I mean if you are of the opinion that people stop watching videos because they don't like them and continue watching because they do, then it would logically follow that by tweaking videos in such a way that people keep watching, you are giving them what they want (even if it's not necessarily what they may say they want). You don't need to be a narcissist grifter to want to make what people want. It's not like this is high art, it's mass consumer entertainment.

Alternatively, you could consider that maybe he just wants to be the best. In that viewpoint it would be like telling Usain Bolt to stop sprinting, because he already has money. Why go for a world record? Just stop bro.

The best at what? Making money on YouTube? View count?

He's explicitly on record on talking about view count and view retention being his explicit north star. You go back and watch his early work and he has been truly obsessed since the beginning. He wants to be popular. He loves the spectacle. Now, he may have become more jaded as time goes on; he certainly could pull back at this time. But he would lose that attention, and I think that's what truly matters to him.

Alright if that's the case then more power to him.

Being the best at making YouTube videos, yes.

Greed is a menace on humanity.

Imagine what all those billionaires could do good for humanity with all that money they can never spend. Instead, they chose to make the world worse and gain even more money they can't spend until they die.

It would be sad if it wouldn't be so terrible.

Greed isn't the menace, humanity is. How do you think those people got those billions? What do you think MrBeast is doing when he's rebuilding his videos around where people drop off?

They are giving people what they want. Surely they have given more people what those people wanted than you have. They have become very, very good at giving people what they want. What, after all, is an "algorithm"?

It's the people who want things that aren't in their own best interest. And when you take it upon yourself to "do good" in ways that deviate from what people want, you are taking the position of "the people don’t know what’s best for them, but I do."

The "they" in your "they chose to make the world worse," is the majority of the human populace.

Edit: Basically, https://youtu.be/TKC2c225EnE

> Greed isn't the menace, humanity is. How do you think those people got those billions? What do you think MrBeast is doing when he's rebuilding his videos around where people drop off?

Exploiting peoples short attention spans and addiction. There are papers on it these days and I'm quite sure he knows those all.

> They are giving people what they want

It is 2026. We know that this kind of optimisation is exploiting weakness in peoples minds. I mean, you say it yourself: "It's the people who want things that aren't in their own best interest.". This is why algorithms don't measure what people want but what keeps them watching. Beast's algorithms don't ask people what they want.

> And when you take it upon yourself to "do good" in ways that deviate from what people want, you are taking the position of "the people don’t know what’s best for them, but I do."

This is usually how a prospering and successful civilisation works. You develop a justice system, laws and regulations so people don't smash their heads until their families are extinguished for example.

> The "they" in your "they chose to make the world worse," is the majority of the human populace.

I'd say there is a huge difference between Bob influencing George so they eat at a certain diner because he likes the waitress and Google running a quasi monopoly on online videos.

My comment was about what Billionaires do with their money and them lobbying for tax cuts, pushing down wages as far as possible or exploiting mechanisms to trap them into addiction is not "what people want".