Lobbying
geohot.github.io
geohot.github.io
"Lobbying" is a generic term for influencing a politician, and it existed well before Citizens United. Hell, corporate influence in politics also existed long before Citizens United, too.
As you pointed out, this is clearly about the type of lobbying where the politician ends up on the board of some industry group that they helped out or receives really generous PAC donations
Lobbying is how businesses talk to government. And I get that that sounds nasty—and sometimes it is nasty—-but it’s necessary.
Most of us work for businesses and when a rule comes out that legitimately threatens your business, you want to be able to tell the government in realtime.
Remember the rule change to the amortization of software expenses, which inadvertently would have killed thousands of software companies? Well, a big push from businesses got the rule amended and eventually removed, which is better for everyone. That’s lobbying.
Many businesses and local governments hire people who specialize in that work due to the sheer volume (America has a lot of layers of government).
I understand why the profession has such a bad reputation. When we think of a “lobbyist” we think of Big Tobacco or Big Tax Prep Software…companies who are trying to preserve their position by paying off the right people. But for every one of those, there are a hundred companies trying to make sure the law doesn’t screw then over and a hundred local communities trying to convince their state capitol to fund their schools and parks and bridges.
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Edit: there’s a dangerous assumption that lawmakers are corrupt and in it for the money. If we allow that assumption, we discourage the best people from choosing civil service because they think the only way to make it is to accept backroom deals. We have robust ethics laws, and we should expect everyone to follow them.
I think the answer to that should tell you how good or bad lobbying is.
government, business, AND citizens
While I’m sure this was lobbied heavily against by many companies, I don’t think that’s what did it. This was bad legislation done on purpose to poison the next administration, then undone as convenient.
What's the mechanism, if not handing people cash and benefits if they support your cause?
Sure. Its a just a shame people don't get a chance to talk too. I don't want a de-anonymised internet, for example, even if most businesses and the governance system think this is a 'good'.
How nice! I wish normal people also had a “realtime” direct line to the government.
> Well, a big push from businesses got the rule amended and eventually removed, which is better for everyone. That’s lobbying.
Why would such efforts even be necessary if government would actually listen to its constituents?
> When we think of a “lobbyist” we think of Big Tobacco or Big Tax Prep Software
When we think of a “lobbyist” we think of more money = more access = more chances you’re being taken seriously. That’s the problem.
p.s. this is not directly to you personally, it’s about the system. I mean no offense.
And if it were just talk, I think people would understand, but it's the mode of discussion, and obvious quid-pro-quos that make it so alien and unpalatable to the actual electorate. And by that I mean everything that isn't a discussion in your office or theirs, with the same treatment they'd have were they to meet with a voter. A cup of coffee and some homemade cake, wonderful. An expense-paid weeklong fishing expo in Bermuda? Nah.
It's hard to have this conversation while the current US administration pillages everything not screwed down and openly give themselves immunity from prosecution, but lawmakers at all levels of all branches should serve the electorate, not themselves. That's the job.
I'm sure your company only does positive, representative things, but the relationship some of your peers have with politicians and judges is unacceptable.
Also, bribery isn't really "super illegal" in America. Cases like McDonnell vs. US make it so that as long as you don't go "Thank you for the bag of money, which I hereby accept in exchange for granting you, in my official capacity, that government contract you wanted, which you would not have gotten otherwise," you're pretty much in the clear.
Also, a lot of lobbying happens without money changing hands. Politicians need professional bodies and local communites for a variety of reasons. From staging campaign stops through having experts to maintain a semblance of merit all the way to filling goverment positions and actually exercising power once they win elections. Thus these various groups gain influence.
Also, you have gradient from "actual honest expert advise" to "pushing own interest while claiming to be an expert".
Not because there aren't many honest people driven by what's best for their craft or profession, there are, but these are not the kinds of people who find being a political party's talking head on a morning show, or even reviewing their political program and schmoozing with the apparatchiks, gratifying.
Less "sophisticated" countries just tend cut out the lobbyist middleman and call it what it is - bribery.
[0]https://www.protothema.gr/files/2025-03-06/ekthesi-lobbying....
“It’s just that a bag of cash is persuasive”. Well, no shit. It’s called bribery.
This is just a sleight of hand with definitions.
now consider if that is the entire set of stakeholders
National Association of Realtors – $3,751,000
Blue Cross/Blue Shield [health insurance] – $2,705,050
American Crystal Sugar [agriculture] – $2,667,500
National Beer Wholesalers Association – $2,585,000
American Israel Public Affairs Committee – $2,572,500
Operating Engineers Union – $2,528,306
America's Credit Unions – $2,489,160
American Bankers Association – $2,249,580
Sheet Metal, Air, Rail & Transportation Union – $2,226,900
Trump 47 Committee – $2,220,530
Given this list, it’s really hard to be surprised about how America operates internally, and which businesses are sacrosanct. You could produce this list to the questions “why is real estate so expensive? Why don’t we have free healthcare? Why do we care so much about Israel? etc.”
https://www.opensecrets.org/political-action-committees-pacs...
You can see any individual politicians and who they're funded by or see which industry funds which candidates
But now that Dark Money[0] is legal, there's limited value in these numbers
[0] https://www.brennancenter.org/topics/money-politics/influenc...
Lobbying, in practice, has turned into a form of bribery.
If only America was some kind of "representative" democracy where it was already the job of politicians to find this out.
TIL
>1, Populism characterized by low-quality (often gen AI) memes and conspiracy theories.
>2, Populism characterized by vague, disingenuous, or excessively idealistic claims.
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/slopulism
I disagree with categorization though. Or now lower quality writing will be also branded as AI generated?
If you get around that principle by paying, however indirectly, it's a degree of bribery.
One one hand, lobbying means interfacing with government leaders directly; engaging in face to face communication, and building relationships so that your interests are heard. No one thinks that's bad.
However, the US has taken many steps since well before Citizens United to build a kind of legal fiction which has made bribes legal, which is wrapped in the same language as what I'll call "ethical lobbying." As the OP points out, as long as on the record there are enough levels of separation between the politician and the person or organization giving the money, it's completely fine. The fact that the CEO and the politician are having lunch together is just a coincidence as they are definitely old buddies who have a shared mutual friend.
This problem has existed for a while in the US, but the Citizens United decision and the expense of running re-election campaigns has made it far, far worse.
I had this discussion with a lobbyist some time ago who clarified it for me. This is what I took away from that:
Politicians, especially federal ones, need to have massively large scope. It is impossible for them to be experts or even knowledgable in everything.
Lobbyists are responsible for educating politicans on issues that are important for the businesses they represent and persuading them to pass legislation that is favorable to them. That's it; that's the job.
If doing four years of policy debate taught me anything, it's (a) there's always a way to spin something in your favor, and (b) someone will always disagree with you, but there's almost always a way to meet in the middle.
If you're reading this, you've probably lobbied for something in your life. A big and costly redesign at home that your partner isn't bought into. An expensive purchase. Moving somewhere. Changing your appearance. If you had to campaign for something that you wanted and was important to you, then congrats, you were your own lobbyist!
(If you're thinking "this sounds kind of like sales," well, it is! Replace "legislation" with "cash" and you're pretty much there.)
Lobbying is also not necessarily bribery. Donating to PACs is not the only form of lobbying, though this unfortunately does happen and I wish more was done to close those loopholes.
Companies that do business internationally have some kind of state-sponsored bribery factored into their budgets. Think "getting stopped by police on the way to a customer and they are about to accuse you of something ridiculous unless you give them USD $20 to change their mind" kind of affairs. Now _that's_ bribery.
Are you prepared to go as far as to say that lobbying is necessary for good government?
Lobbying is also different to bribery even if some bribery is done under the label of lobbying.
Not anymore! Just change the order!
Supreme Court Rules Bribes are Fine if You’re Paid Later: https://afj.org/article/supreme-court-rules-bribes-are-fine-...
Yes, I strictly interpreted "completely".
The President of the United States routinely pardons people of federal criminal charges in exchange for large sums of money. He does it right out in the open.
There are credible reasons to believe the administration will attempt to nullify the results of the upcoming midterm elections if they go as badly for the Republicans as it seems they will, and who knows what the hell will happen in 2028.
That's how you can tell that lobbying is different from prostitution. In the latter, money exchange is illegal both before and after the act.
Did you know there are 30000++ lobbyists in Brussels? https://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/may/08/lobbyists-euro...
That's 40 lobbyists for every EU parliament member.
Finally, lobbying is not a bad thing per se. Take the Chat Control issue that the EU has been pushing down the throat of its citizens for the last 5 years, the worst aspects of it have been watered down (slightly) because of citizens lobbying their MPs to defend their privacy rights.
Everyone can become a lobby and make their voices heard and that is how it's supposed to work.
Not guilty your honor.
Some argument dude.
Kind of like, "If you don't bribe us, we shall pass laws that hurt you."
Business people just want to run their businesses.
Politicians however depend on strife. Which explains why, no matter the politician, nothing ever changes.
If you are to classify business people & politicians in an ecological sense.
- Business people would be symbiotes
- Politicians are parasites