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Comment by rwyinuse | Hacker News Reader

Yeah, the only problem is that you can't really establish a lasting peace with a government that is more interested in land grabbing, and turning its neighbors into vassal states.

If Europe gives in to Russia in Ukraine, anyone with basic understanding of history can see that they'll turn their attention towards Baltics, Moldova and maybe Finland and Poland. Putin doesn't want to return those "good years" between cold war and Ukraine conflict, he wants to return to the glory days of Cold War when Russia (Soviet Union) was a real superpower.

Over here in Finland, we would absolutely love to have peaceful relations with Russia, based on mutual respect and trade. But we're under no illusion about it being possible with current Russian administration.

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On the other hand, if you think history is the only guide for humans to follow, Europe will self-implode before Russia gets there, anyway.

Fortunately, there are growing segments of European society who actually want to have a bright and prosperous future. This doesn’t happen with war - it happens by making sure your neighbors are well fed, too.

So, what do you suggest as a practical solution? Give Ukraine to Russia? Or maybe Baltic states too? How much land do the Russian elites need until they're satisfied and "well fed"?

I think the real issue is that Russian people consistently fail to hold their leaders accountable. It's the local rich, corrupt oligarchy stealing their prosperity, not any foreign power. They're the ones waging war as well.

I'm worried of growing segments of Western European population that are happy to make an unfair deal with Russia, as long as it's some Eastern Europeans and not them who will suffer the consequences. I guess from their viewpoint some dead Ukrainians, Estonians or Poles is acceptable if they personally get cheaper petrol and gas.

My personal opinion is that the only way Western democracies can wean themselves off the war teat is for us to direct our attention to our own war crimes.

With Gaza, Germans have been enlightened to the fact that the war in Ukraine isn’t the only atrocity their state is involved in. German ammo kills kids: a growing segment of German society is starting to understand this.

> I think the real issue is that Russian people consistently fail to hold their leaders accountable.

Yes, and I think Europeans understand that the most effective way for Russians to learn this, is for Europe to lead by example. Accountability for European leadership is also a massive problem. Germans seem to be very much more aware of this than most.

Yes, I think Europe should take a stronger stance towards what is happening in Gaza. But I wouldn't be so hopeful about Russians learning from that. The culture of political tyranny, apathy, corruption and indifference just runs too deep there. As long as Russia is that way, German weaponry is needed to defend kids in Eastern Europe.

>The culture of political tyranny, apathy, corruption and indifference just runs too deep there.

You can easily say this about the UK and the USA as well, you know. There isn't something exceptional about the US' corrupt military-industrial complex, except for the absolutely horrendous, atrocious scale of its victims.

Russia can fix itself. I am as optimistic of that fact, as I am of Americans fixing their issues, too. Seriously, Americans, fix your shit. Only then will you have what it takes to get Russians to fix their shit, too. Not before.

Yeah, I agree with you there mostly. There's plenty of fix in America and UK too, and their military adventures in Iraq and Afghanistan in particular have brought way more misery than good. Still, their military support of Ukraine is justified, as Ukraine is fighting a defensive war.

> Over here in Finland, we would absolutely love to have peaceful relations with Russia, based on mutual respect and trade. But we're under no illusion about it being possible with current Russian administration.

Russian administration is the reflection of the nature of Russian people. Look at Russian history - it is very unlikely that different administration would behave differently.

Putin is not a blip, he is the trend.

True, even with Putin gone it's more likely than not Russia will continue being a pain. But at least there's a chance.

Russia is the worlds largest state; Russians know full well the designs for their submission floating in the halls of various Western power centers. There will be a string of Putins because of this.

Russians will never submit to war or threats to subjugate their nation.

They will align with mutual economic prosperity, however.

German society seems to be having a moment where it realizes this, suddenly. Germans really don’t want another billion euro’s being spent on slaughtering children. They want the cheap energy back, and they want peace in Europe through the only way there has ever been peace in Europe: strong economic ties between states and mutually assured prosperity.

The Germans had strong economic ties with Russia for last thirty years. That did not stop Russia from starting multiple genocidal wars of conquest.

Would you be okay with another nations nukes on your border, within 7 minutes of your capital city?

Would you be okay if Russia had its bioweapons facilities located within a strong winds’ distance of your states major population centers?

Would you be okay with foreign investors in your country using power and wealth to gain cover for their genocide and influence your politi … ermm .. okay, never mind, you probably are okay with that if you’re an American ..

This is just word salad. Are you LLM and not a very good one, perhaps?

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