It sounds like you never enjoyed coding.
If the discussion was "Sitting in a submarine is not as fun as scuba-diving", I would recognize the conversation is not about me, and not jump in and tell all of the recreational scuba-divers they're wrong.
If the discussion was "Sitting in a submarine is not as fun as scuba-diving", I would recognize the conversation is not about me, and not jump in and tell all of the recreational scuba-divers they're wrong.
Yes. Who says people must enjoy coding? People enjoy trying new things and building new products, and coding isn't the goal, it's just the tool you use use to get to your goal. If now you can build things without you doing the coding part, then why is that bad?
I think this berating of people who don't enjoy coding is cope and bile by coders who feel being left behind by an industry who only values the end product and doesn't care about their idealist craft for the code, but this always had been the case. People bought Half-Life because the game was good, not because the code was written with enjoyment by the devs(Valve source code is full of swear words).
There's plenty of products with shit code that sell well, and plenty of products with good code that don't sell and bankrupt the company. The end-product is king, not the code. Did Steve Jobs just care about the end product UX or about how nice the code inside was?
Nobody. But everyone is saying that I must stop coding by hand or get left behind. I really like understanding what I'm building and creating works of art in code. The sense of accomplishment is gone.
Didn't you just accuse someone above of not enjoying coding as if that's somehow a must?
>But everyone is saying that I must stop coding by hand or get left behind.
Nobody here is saying that. People are saying whether you enjoy coding or not, doesn't matter for the end product if it does the job just as well. When people buy an iPhone, a pair of Nikes, or some other China made nicknack off Amazon, they don't care if the factory workers who assembled it enjoyed their time on the assembly line making stuff for you, or if they're sweatshop workers assembling your stuff in absolute pain and misery, they care if the end product in their hand satisfies them.
>I really like understanding what I'm building and creating works of art in code.
Is passionate code something customers are willing to pay a premium for versus the AI written one, or do customers only care about the end product and nobody gives a shit if it was vibecoded or whether you poured your soul in the code?
my CEO said it publicly to all engineers
he still pays me for my handwritten code tho. luckily it's easy to pretend you like AI and know by lying since it has basically no skill curve.
and then just carry on doing a good job the old way.
"People" say a lot of things, I can only reply to comments said here, not to vague words by anonymous people from the ether.
>my CEO said it publicly to all engineers
Good think your CEO speaks for everyone in the industry.
I think what he means is that he's afraid for his company being beaten by competitors who will overtake you if they use AI but you don't.
> Nobody here is saying that.
To be fair, I've definitely seen that said multiple times on HN, even if not in this particular thread.
To be fair, after talking to AI devs on the frontline at a local meetup, I learned that models, agents and harnesses have so many edge cases, traps and footguns, that aren't really well documented anywhere, especially visible on large codebases, that you really need to stay up to date to keep up and squeeze the best out of each model for your intended use case.
How does being sad help anyone?
I enjoy the act of coding, but my ambition to create almost always exceeded my ability and the number of hours in the day. So the transition from coder (and sometimes manager) to agent orchestrator has been fairly positive.
It's not necessarily easy or pleasant to evolve, but that's life.
Nothing about this is "natural". It's all because a handful of people made the decisions in order to make money, and we're all collateral.
Now, the field comes with a perpetual $20/month tag, apparently.
I think the cat was out of the bag as soon as OpenAI proved that scaling up transformers was effective. I don't think the way it's playing out is particularly good for normal people, but the advancement of these models can't be stopped.
The light at the end of the tunnel is hardware advancement and open models. In 5 or 10 years if we can run an Opus 5.5+ model on a local device, things might not turn out so bad.
Yeah, i've seen this when others shown. We're no longer in the days when you just copy and paste code snippets in the browser window, nor just dump and entire codebase in the harness and letting it rip, there's an entire new skill tree on how to use each model and harness correctly for maximum gains and bypassing various context hiccups.
Well it seems unfair to compare anyone to your brilliance.
Nobody. But if you never enjoyed coding then the post about enjoying coding clearly isn't for you?
GGP was being judgemental on people not enjoy coding, which means for him the default status quo is that one has to enjoy coding, therefore my assessment was correct.