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Comment by kuerbel | Hacker News Reader

That is not anti solidarity, I know Afternative für Deutschland voters like to frame it this way but it's not.

Please keep your narrow political views to yourself. Just because someone tells and true fact about hundreds of thousands of Ukrainian refugees that didn’t payed a single Euro into the health insurance system keeps on benefiting from it, doesn’t make them an AfD voter. That’s a sentiment shared by people from every political spectrum in Germany from Linke to AfD.

If you like it or not, it is anti-solidarity if you benefit from a system that you have never contributed. That is just free loading and one should be ashamed of it.

The act of giving involves someone who receives, that doesn't make it anti-giving.

> it is anti-solidarity if you benefit from a system that you have never contributed

What's your stance on disabled children who can never sustain themselves?

I don’t have any problem with disabled children or even adults being taken care of by the society. But that’s not the point. Fully able bodied people that can work and contribute are taking advantage of the system without giving back anything to the system. That’s what’s anti-solidarity

> Fully able bodied people that can work and contribute are taking advantage of the system

Evidence? Earlier you seem to be complaining that refugees are admitted or taken care of in the first place. The former is off topic IMO while the latter is taken for granted. Now you apparently shift to objecting that they refuse to work. Which is it?

The act of giving involves a choice. If you don't have a choice its not you giving but someone else taking.

"Should be ashamed" linked to refugees.

This is a clear comment showing that your moral compass is quite broken.

That’s not true. There is a limitation where one is charitable without taken advantage of. You cannot expect one to be a life long refugee and keep on sucking resources from the system. They need to start contributing back as soon as possible. Otherwise how sustainable and just do you think the system would be.

Also this thread is the perfect example that one cannot even question the fairness of abusing the system because then they would be labled as immoral or an AfD voter

Welcome to HN :-))

That isn't what happened here. You spewed unsubstantiated partisan taking points. Now (upon crying foul) you at least make a sensible argument but without any data supporting it. That isn't useful behavior for this website.

Aren't Ukrainians actually large net contributors?

They are and thus welcome

That is not an argument though. He gave a specific example.

You brought up only AfD, without giving any counter-example or refuting his arguments. That's now how a discussion should work.

See it from the other side: the argument IS ENTIRELY IRRELEVANT with regards to AfD or any other party. So, an argument should be made from this point of view as well.

They haven't brought up any argument at all, they simply said that "millions imported into the system do not contribute", which is not an argument or a fact. Just a statement. What is there to discuss? Why are you holding my comment to a different standard, because you don't agree or what?

But just for you I have looked up the facts: 1.1 million Ukrainian refugees, and half of them are employed by now. 1.1 million including children, elderly, and so on, people who aren't able to work. A) its not "millions" B) german overall employment rate is about 45.5 million employed people out of 83.5 million residents. So they are totally in line with the average population.

noone was complaining about Ukrainian refugees, you missed the other area where refugees come but never contribute back to society except crime

> or a fact. <

Obviously, you are not a local! Statistics all around, from Gov to private orgs, tell quite the opposite.

Then go ahead and present those. That's what we're all here on HN for unless I've a gross misunderstanding. Otherwise your comment is no better than partisan noise.

You can’t remove party politics from a discussion of national healthcare. It is absolutely relevant.

Then you also can't complain when people whose arguments you dismissed as party politics start voting for parties you don't like en masse. Which is coincidentally what's happening. But I'm sure you'll blame russian interference or some similar lazy excuse instead of doing any introspection.

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