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Comment by penskymaterial | Hacker News Reader

Maybe someone can explain why their SSDs, when not soldered down, are a proprietary form factor and can't be replaced with a standard M.2 device?

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I believe they have a special kind of SSD, where the controller is locked into the motherboard. This is serial locked in some form.

(Correct me if I’m wrong, but this is how I understand it)

My understanding is that the controller is integrated into the SoC.

You can actually replace the storage on Apple desktops but it’s a bit of a pain and isn’t as cheap as m.2 2280 drives.

I don’t really know why Apple does this when their solution doesn’t seem to offer an obvious advantage. They aren’t faster than existing solutions or anything like that.

Vendor lock-in increases their profit margins. If people could purchase a 128GB Mac mini and install their own 2TB drives they wouldn't make as much money.

Longer traces and contact connectors require more power and generate more heat to maintain the same level of signal integrity as shorter traces and soldered connections. All modern Apple hardware is downstream of its phone division. They don't make a specialty PC that runs a very different O/S (macOS instead of Windows) anymore, they make a scaled-up phone that runs a slightly different O/S (macOS instead of iOS) now.

It’s not actually serial locked, you can replace SSDs by desoldering and resoldering a NAND chip. But basically their SSD controller is integrated into the M-series chips (mostly because cheaper, less connectors to manufacture). But it’s a very specialized process

I think most consumers would happily pay a bit extra for these controllers if it meant that they could manually upgrade their SSDs. I can’t help but have the feeling that it’s also quite convenient for Apple that all this stuff is effectively non-replaceable / upgradable.

I don’t think the benefits are the same as with their RAM being part of their SoC, as that gives them real speed improvements, right?

I disagree. I think 90% or more wouldn't care.

Indeed,

> manually upgrade

or “average Apple customer”, pick one

btw something beautiful about the YouTube videos of shops in China doing those SSD deletes with the power tools

I'd be amazed if even 1% care

> it’s also quite convenient for Apple that all this stuff is effectively non-replaceable / upgradable

On the other hand, I’m happily banging away on my ca. 2020 M1 MacBook Pro. It just got a warranty service, free to me, that replaced the screen. It will probably get replaced around 2030. That simply isn’t the norm with the alternatives.

The hypothesis that this is self serving isn’t supported by the evidence. Instead it’s more parsimonious to conclude that this is Apple being Apple with pushing design to the limit when it comes to executing a vision. User-upgradable parts have not been part of that vision since Jobs returned.

> User-upgradable parts have not been part of that vision since Jobs returned.

Macs were quite repairable and most parts were replaceable until ~2012. So it’s hard to blame Jobs for that.

> Macs were quite repairable and most parts were replaceable until ~2012. So it’s hard to blame Jobs for that

Not "blaming" because I'm not convinced it's the wrong move. Soldering memory directly onto the logic board has advantages relative to a fully-encapsulated drive.

Apple learned this, in part, from designing the iPhone. And Jobs always had this penchant for pushing design to its limits even when it sacrifices conventional (and in some cases, probably necessary) functional requirements.

What I am convinced about is the lunacy of the planned-obsolescence argument. The longevity of Apple's products simply doesn't support it.

I've had good luck with AppleCare and warranty service, and most of my Macbook's have lasted well.

On the other hand my sons 2021 Mac Mini M1 with an estimated < 20% writes remaining on the SSD is not looking very cool. In fact, rather disappointing and the computer will be junk soon due to the SSD only.

> User-upgradable parts have not been part of that vision since Jobs returned

Steve Jobs literally got up on stage and proudly showed off the PowerMac G3 with a side door you could hinge down to open up the machine as it was running.

It was once Jony Ive got more power that everything went to pot. The first Macs with soldered-in storage were released after Jobs' death.

They could easily give us a system that can be easily upgraded. At least the SSD.

And I would inmediately put an order for a 256GB Mac Studio with 1TB SSD, if I were to know that SSD can be upgraded later on. I dont even mind if I have to buy premium SSD upgrades from Apple.

But locking the system in and knowing the decision is final? No thanks. And no way I am shelling 18k or whatever outrageous sum they ask for 8 extra TB.

It might be they are leaving money off the table with their greed.

Note that before the Mac mini socketed SSDs, Retina MacBook Pros had socketed SSDs as well. They were not standard M.2 either though, you had to get specific aftermarket parts from the likes of OWC

My understanding is that they are not SSDs - they lack a disk controller, instead providing flash memory more directly to the SoC

To gain the same effect as one that is soldered down, while giving themselves a simpler portfolio of assemblies and a cheaper FRU to swap in the event of failure.

So vendor locking to make more money. :)

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