DUNS - the fraudulent secret startup cost of iOS development | Hacker News Reader

DUNS - the fraudulent secret startup cost of iOS development

stefankendall.com

138 pointsstefan_kendall40 comments

Based on my experience, if you apply using Apple's form at https://developer.apple.com/ios/enroll/dunsLookupForm.action, you can get your DUNS number within 5 days for free.

I explained my full process at http://blog.metamorphium.com/2012/12/03/apple-duns/

Try getting the number from here: http://fedgov.dnb.com/webform/displayHomePage.do

You basically tell DnB that you are applying for a US government contract. They are then required to give give you the number within 1 day.

They will tell you that they will revoke your number if you don't enter yourself in some government database within 90 days. You can then enter yourself there (or as happened for us the first time we needed the number, we were just too busy to do that and figured that we would let it expire and deal with the consequences if anyone really needed to use the number).

That seems dishonest. I don't think that's a good idea.

Yeah, sorry, I have little tolerance for government created monopolies that are overly bureaucratic. We actually did have an SBIR for which we needed it.

D&B seems to be a good company, but the DUNS system seems broken and requires payment just to signup for no value being provided.

What makes you think D&B is a good company? As far as I can tell all their revenue streams sit right on the border of extortion. If they couldn't convince major players like apple or the US Gov to require the usage of a DUNs number, they wouldn't even have those revenue streams.

Additionally they are at this point the number 1 source of voicemail spam for me. And asking them to not call is non-functional.

D&B are definitely part of the axis of evil.

Along with the rest of the companies in that segment of the market.

DUNS aren't government created and they aren't a monopoly. The US government uses them, but companies like Apple certainly don't have to.

Better idea: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4980216

What if you then went out and found a random government contract to apply for?

When you are dealing with a monopoly backed by government power the only dishonest thing to do is to not cheat them.

Is this your first exposure to the seamy underbelly of government contracting?

I almost consider that a positive in this case.

This is the method I used in the past when I needed a DUNS number for other reasons. However, recently trying this did not work at all. They simply email back saying "You're not a contractor for the US government" and then close the request.

There was another article recently about the awful DUNS # process for the App Store. You can find some good tips in the comments, including applying via the federal site and applying via Apple's form. Readers suggest both of these methods are faster.

http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4977889

I also posted my own experience getting the free DUNS #:

http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4978516

Worth noting that if you're a "single person business", you don't need to bother with a DUNS number: https://developer.apple.com/support/ios/D-U-N-S.html

(ie: If you were planning on hacking something together and charging for it on the App Store, go for it. This won't affect you.)

Ah... I was wondering how I'd gotten around this when I signed up as a dev.

I think this is a recent-ish thing. I didn't have to go through it when creating a company account > 18 months ago.

I'm not sure what problem Apple were trying to fix.

It's probably just a hoop they make you jump through to make sure you're "serious" so that they can cut down on app approval times without hiring a bunch more reviewers.

Definitely seems to be recent. I signed up my company back in July and had to fax in identification forms. No DUNS required.

My little non-profit apparently got a DUNS number automatically when we filed our first 990EZ "online postcard" with the IRS. I had no idea that it existed until a merchant card processor wanted it along with our EIN because D&B had never called or mailed us anything. When I did the lookup on D&B's web site and found the number already assigned, I gave it to the people who wanted it and thought nothing more. Two days later, the phone calls and letters started. "Your Dun & Bradstreet registration is incomplete and may not be accepted!" They haven't shut up for over a year. Fortunately they don't appear to have a working telephone number for me.

Marco Arment spoke about the hoops he went through when going through DUNS on Build and Analyze (#93, 24:48 in[1]). While his discussion isn't as accusatory, it might be worth a listen for his experience in dealing with them.

[1] - http://5by5.tv/buildanalyze/93

A reassuring note for UK readers - I got my number in 3 days, and nobody tried to upsell me on anything. (It's possible there's less paperwork for them in the UK, what with UK company details being centralized.)

They did assure me that this stupid number would be useful for all manner of stuff, which, so far, it hasn't been. But since they didn't charge me for this misinformation, I'm willing to let them off.

Yeah, we had a similar experience in the UK, we had our DUNS number the next day.

I've dealt with these jokers with going after federal grants... very, very shady and I totally empathize. Getting a DUNS number is actually free and you can get it in 24 hours, but you have to call their super secret number for federal contractors. Just tell them you're only using it to suckle on the government udder. It is the same number regardless.

We just went through this at OpenWatch. Ugh, what a nightmare, and could set our launch back by a few weeks. Horrible company.

My experience: after about a month, they finally called and took my information over the phone. I then waited the 2 weeks for the information to "propagate" to Apple, tried to sign up, but it said something was off. It turns out they forgot to put in our website address. So I tried to sign up for their iUpdate account (which allows modification of your data), and apparently I missed one of the questions, so now I can't update it online, and the only choice is to mail in this paper form along with like 3 paper forms of identification, then wait for a few weeks for them to give me credentials to iUpdate, then make the single-field change, then wait another 2 weeks for it to propagate to Apple. I called to ask "since you were able to take all my other information over the phone, can you please just make this minor modification?" The answer was always "no." D&B is indubitably the worst "service" I have EVER worked with!

Just being curious - checking for Germany:

"If you would like to obtain a D&B D-U-N-S Number for your business, please complete and submit the form below. Companies based in Germany will receive their D&B D-U-N-S® Number within five working days. Companies based outside of Germany will receive their D&B D-U-N-S® Number within 30 working days."

Yes, D-U-N-S numbers are a scam. The 30 day delay is to scare you into paying -- I got a number free in a couple days. D&B will cold call you later to sell you their many other bogus services. They'll also sell your information to anyone who pays.

I also had to register for a DUNS number. I was somehow able to do it online and get the number emailed to me immediately, without any phone calls or other human interaction. Of course the email contained promotions for services like "DNBi SelfMonitor" for $39/month. So much for accreditation.

I'm pretty sure a meth lab trying to go legit could get by DnB. There's no real screening here; it's pure extortion.

I have found a hack to get a DUNS number instantly that I have used for 5-10 different companies of mine, it works every time and as far as I can tell there is no backlash. feel free to email me if you're reading this and want to save $230 lol

Is this a joke? Why wouldn't you just post it?

Annoying that the Apple DUNS lookup is not working currently:

    "We're sorry, this service is currently unavailable. 
    Please try again later."

Same thing here. I gave up and decided to go through D&B's website and filled out their forms last night. Got a call this morning. For $295 they can expedite the process and get you your number in 3 days or wait 30 - 45 days. This is completely ridiculous. If I get my number in 6 weeks and wait 2 weeks for Apple to update their database I'm looking at a 2 month delay in releasing my app. Nice job Apple.

It is not a cost. The number is free to get. It's also only necessary if you setup a company developer account - it is not needed for an individual one.

Slightly off-topic - the submitter's app (Big Lifts Pro) is very useful for people doing Wendler 5/3/1 or Starting Strength.

Could someone with some knowledge please cover why apple has this requirement?

I believe the requirement of a DUNS number began sometime around June 2012. Before that, they required a company to upload their incorporation documents. My guess is manually validating those documents became too much of a burden, and it was easier to just rely on the same international database that the government uses to identify companies. Basically, it allows Apple to offload the manual labor of verifying companies to a third party at no cost.

Just FYI, having a DUNS code is also part of the requirements for publishing on the Windows Store. Symantec is the third-party doing the verifications for Microsoft.

This is a serious scam, wonder my Apple is going with them. Not only do they scam you to signup for an account, they call you every month and scare you into buying a report. They say that multiple companies are requesting your credit reports and its not complete, you need to pay a certain amount to get it in shape.

Any update can take up to 14 days and they call you at odd hours to confirm those details as well.

Serious scam and a huge pain in the ass every company has to deal with while signing up for a developer account.

I started my signup process in August and got the developer account setup for our company in November. F#$%ing BS!

Reply on news.ycombinator.com