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> because my projects on github using zig uses LLM

To be clear, we do not block people for merely having LLM-related projects. Obviously we have opinions about LLMs in a broader context, but in terms of rules enforcement, we only care about LLM usage taking place within official Zig spaces.

It's possible you were blocked in error. LLM detection is not foolproof, so unless it's an open-and-shut case, our usual approach is to just unblock if people reach out to us by email.

I would understand if its by error but based on how it was banned it did feel deliberate. Also I have written email to core member before making a decision to leave the community. I think a community can only thrive when they are nice to humans. Here it felt like zig is worse then a oligopoly where few core members can block anyone without any reason and don't even have a courtesy to send a message. I worked with python community since its beginning, same worked with linux community since 1992, never seen such attitude even though both of the projects were driven by benevolent dictators, but they did care about the community around it. I still have one major work [1] in zig, which I will still release but after this won't work on zig. Zig community felt like a hostile ologipoly of few core members without proper due process, when it comes to treating humans.

[1] https://github.com/insanai/sibuna

Well of course the block itself was deliberate. By "in error" I meant that we might have misjudged the text as being LLM.

Who did you email, when, and did you get a response? We've all been very busy leading up to the release, and most of the team is also currently traveling for SYCL.

Regarding sending a message, consider our side: We're tired of having our time wasted on slop, so we don't also want to have to write formal block notifications to people we block on suspicion of using LLMs. I'm fully aware that this can lead to an unfortunate situation like this, however. For what it's worth, this is why we want to move to an invite tree for Zig development; it'll allow us to create a high-trust environment where this kind of suspicion is unnecessary.

Thanks for the reply alex. I send an email to andrew, but not to reinstate my account just to send the details of the incident before I move on.

I wish all the success to zig because diversity keeps the innovation alive.

The reason I moved on is, after 2 times consecutively facing the same issue, I felt I will be helpless in zig community and felt like my voice will be muzzled without any reason done in an opaque and abrupt manner. I prefer to err on the side of openness than caution.

> after 2 times consecutively facing the same issue

Sorry, would you mind clarifying what you mean by this? I'm only aware of the one incident?

Initially I posted my project on ziggit forum. Respecting the rules, in my post I did mention use of LLM extensively on those projects. One of the post asked "If I used LLM", I did not get a chance to replay, right away my account was blocked on ziggit for 1 year. Thats ok I accepted it, I thought I should respect the community.

In the second incident I opened a small PR with an issue which I fixed for my own project, later I created a PR. I did understand that zig community do not accept LLM written post or PR on their official repository, so I went ahead and wrote the issue myself, also for PR I wrote the code, run the test locally on my own PC, tested if it compiles and pass the test on my osx and linux. Since it was my first PR, did not expect it to be accepted and thought may be some core developer will pick the code and merge or write another code.

Also I created one more issue which was closed by the core developer with a message its fixed in 0.17, I thanked the person.

I saw one issue from another person facing similar issue as mine. I give a comment and also put a code snippet for him to try on his own machine, since on my machine it compiled correctly and created windows cross compiled library on my linux machine. But then suddenly I cannot see my issues, my comments and PR. I initially thought issue with my own system it was not so. Then thought may be codeberg blocked it, but that was not the issue either. Then I spend significant amount of time going through forgejo documentation to find out that a person running a project can remove the person from a repo and their whole history and work will be gone from that repo. I have other repo on codeberg which worked fine with my account, so then tried to create new issue in zig repo to test if I am being blocked.

This is when I realized then my account has been banned by some zig core developer deliberately without a single message, including no message that my account has been blocked. This is like a tyranny of minority and community do not build like this.

A community requires a due and a transparent process even if its benevolent dictatorship. Since it happened twice in a span of just 2 weeks, it really felt like zig is not an open community and breeds strong disdain towards people working in AI or LLM. I then realized that I made too early decision on bun incident, where I took the side of the zig core team, now could understand the other side of the coin.

I have been following zig since it was started, just didn't take the plunge, but once I took the plunge and met hostile community, personally I thought I should move on. Still I believe in diversity of opinion so will still be happy to see zig thrive as a language because I liked its simplicity and also diversity breeds innovation.

> Good to know they are trying pragmatic approach to LLM now.

What's this new approach they're trying?

I don't think the zig community is necessarily hostile to LLMs, they just don't want it in their "maintained by 10-ish core people not even full time" language impl. Mitchell Hashimoto, a big zig contributor (both money and effort), for example, uses LLMs a lot and no particular shade is thrown.

This is from my own first hand experience both on ziggit forums as well as raising bugs in zig repository. My account on codeberg is still banned on zig repository without any single comment, my issues or pull request raised on that project just went in ether without being accessible, if you see the issue yourself could have made the decision if it was warranted to ban the account, but that right also taken by the core contributor out of spite and disdain for LLM.

I have been in open source world with linux kernel since 1992, never every had seen a community so hostile, especially towards humans who spend time and efforts just out of curiosity, inquisitiveness and trying to support some simple alternative when odds are already against them.

Facing hostile behavior from inside the community made me switch to odin language where they also do not use LLM but are pragmatic about people using it. Cannot comment on Mitchell because I do not contribute with money.

I mean I pr'd something (and it was not accepted) but the grounds have nothing to do with LLMs. I'm pretty vocal about using LLMs to write zig code. Obviously I did not use LLMs in my PR

I would be fine if they reject the PR, given I was first time raising it to fix POSIX related issue. It was just few lines of code. But my account was banned all issues removed my own PR not visible and looked like tyrannical approach not a benevolent dictator approach. I think being nice to another human being is the basis for building community. Here felt like if you are among the few who dictate the terms there is no process just my way or highway.

Well, it's Codeberg. They ban people just for using LLMs.

It is not codeberg, I can work on other repository properly on it. Its only zig repository where my account is blocked. My initial thought was same as you, only later realized it. Also on ziggit these people did the same even though based on policy when I put the post i clearly mentioned use of LLM. This all without any proper communication. After working on zig for over 6 months, now I am moving slowly to odin [1] language. This decision I did not take lightly, I had spend significant resources in zig earlier and now moving away.

[1] https://odin-lang.org/

You sound really fun to collaborate with.

> My account on codeberg is still banned

> my account was banned because my projects on github using zig uses LLM.

Its not Zig. Its codeberg. Codeberg has a strict no-AI policy. Codeberg is ALL about the community and not the lone hacker. I think its a good policy to prevent overload and clearly distinguish project ecosystems from each other.

https://blog.codeberg.org/protecting-our-floss-commons-from-...

They said that their projects on GitHub use LLM, not on Codeberg.

don't let people gaslight you here. i mean, look at how the creator treated a person who was a zig evangelist and was donating tens of thousands of dollars to the project:

"Jarred was already writing slop well before he had access to LLMs."

"Jarred was a stinky manager. Poor communication, unrealistic expectations, low empathy, no experience. Just a total shit show"

"When Jarred announced the Rust rewrite, we were ecstatic. It seemed too good to be true. I have to admit, I didn't think the technology was there, to pull off this stunt. But he did it, and now I'm metaphorically sipping delicious tea from a mug that says "It Tastes Like It's Not My Problem Anymore"." [1]

or what about when he called people "monkeys" because he didn't like their product [2]

or when their vp of "community" called github employees clowns [3]

so don't let people tell you that there isn't a pattern here. and when this kind of behaviour comes from the top it shapes the rest of the community

[1] https://archive.is/wNLqY

[2] https://web.archive.org/web/20251127021007/https://ziglang.o...

[3] https://bsky.app/profile/kristoff.it/post/3lwa2whcrj22c

> Jarred was already writing slop well before he had access to LLMs.

> Jarred was a stinky manager. Poor communication, unrealistic expectations, low empathy, no experience. Just a total shit show

Are these claims false, though?

??