Hacker News Reader

Comment by Cthulhu_ | Hacker News Reader

I want to agree, but the fact it's state-run / promoted gives me the ick. Or, it gives me a lot of conflicted feelings / opinions, let's put it that way.

Like, here in Europe we've got right-wing parties on the rise that have this conspiracy theory that the foreigners are moving here en masse to replace the locals (because of ??? they never explained, our jobs, benefits and women I suppose). So they spend a lot of time and effort fearmongering about the for'ners coming here and bring in laws and policies to keep them out.

Meanwhile they don't seem to be doing anything about those that already live here - you'd think these right-wing, own-people-first types would do anything to ensure people living here would thrive and reproduce. But no free child care, no major economic reform to allow single incomes to buy a house, none of that. Because ultimately it's not about foreigners or "own people first", it's about self-enrichment, got mine fuck you.

View on HN

> but the fact it's state-run / promoted gives me the ick

That’s an irrational reaction, probably conditioned by ideology.

A well-run state has been perhaps one of the most successful enabling factors for human flourishing in human history.

>That’s an irrational reaction, probably conditioned by ideology.

And yours isn't?

Like it doesn't take much beyond a room temperature IQ to look at the arc of just about every government these days and make an estimation of where it's going without some substantial unforeseen change of course. The state of the world should merit a little pause and/or self doubt there.

>A well-run state has been perhaps one of the most successful enabling factors for human flourishing in human history.

Historically the states that have dabbled in this area of policy area has been "well run" in only the most dishonest "they accomplished their short term goals" sense of the phrase.

> room temperature IQ

careful, we have a very intelligent individual over here

> arc of just about every government

do you mean the US government?

>careful, we have a very intelligent individual over here

If you want to take it as a well deserved slight in your direction that's fine but the point was the opposite. Just about anyone can make the insight I did. You don't have to be a genius to see what's going on here.

>do you mean the US government?

It's one of many dozens on the list.

how about you make the insight about the difference between the state and the government :)

All of the government is the state but not all of the state is the govenrment.

> And yours isn’t?

Many people trust the government for policing, military, central banking. Some not. Many trust them for health care and education, many not.

Very very few don’t trust the government for anything. So for this random example, a dating service, it feels like it’s ideological conditioning (otherwise the OP would explain why it feels bad for them).

> That’s an irrational reaction

Not if you think that your government isn't looking out for your best interests. A well run state is exactly what we need, but rarely what we have. Right now we see rising authoritarianism, less transparency, open bribery, more frequent and blatant lying, less accountability, more corruption, democratic backsliding, attacks on civil rights. etc. All that stuff is going to breed skepticism, and it really should. Eroding people's trust in government by actively working to corrupt it and impede it from functioning properly has been a very successful strategy.

The solution for your food being spoiled is to get rid of it, and get something fresh. Not to stop eating food.

You're right, and you'd think seeing all the ways our government is vulnerable to these problems would result in reforms to fix and prevent those issues, but it seems like a lot of people have given up even trying. Learned helplessness I guess.

Exactly. Eroding trust is such a successful strategy because it weaponizes confirmation bias. Once people are primed to be skeptical, they often come to conclusions irrationally first, and then (knowingly or not) seek only to prove themselves right.

Also the more successful the corruption and break down of government and its institutions are, the more necessary skepticism becomes. For example, you might have faith in the experts at the CDC and the FDA until those agencies get taken over and run by people who compromise its mission and the workers with integrity resign or get fired or get censored and suddenly you've got states scrambling to create things like the West Coast Health Alliance and the Northeast Public Health Collaborative to try to get the actual work done and get real information out to a public that's being misinformed.

The longer the feedback loop continues, and the more people are hurt, the more difficult it will be and the longer it will take to restore faith.

Are you implying that there aren't a massive number of foreigners moving to Europe? roughly 10% of the people living in the EU were born outside of it.

https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php...

Western far-right governments would likely try to use these services to pair white natives with other natives (or otherwise shape the population to their liking). Gross.

Still, there's value in this product in a non-radicalized society.

Reply on news.ycombinator.com