Comment by runjake | Hacker News Reader

Comment by runjake | Hacker News Reader

This is hastily-written, sorry

Step 1: Decide what car(s) you want to buy, down to the color, trim, options, etc. Type it all out in concise list form.

Step 2: Visit Edmunds.com, etc and get a general idea of local fees, taxes, and costs.

Step 3: Find the dealer websites within 120 miles or so, and write down their "Internet Sales" and "Fleet Sales Manager" email addresses.

Step 4: Compose an email to each of the email addresses you wrote down. Say that you are sending this out to several dealers within 120 miles and you will be selecting the lowest cost for the following list (which you created in step 1). Ask them to give you their "walk out the door" price. This price will include all fees, taxes, costs, etc.

Step 5: Wait. Maybe 30% of them won't reply, but that's OK.

Step 6: Take the lowest quote and tack it to the wall. Send another email to the next 2 or 3 lowest quotes saying that the guy tacked to the wall is quoting you $true_value (don't lie). See if they come down in price.

Step 7: Pick the one.

This has worked 3 times for buying a new car. No haggling or even stepping into the car lot until negotiations are done. You don't necessarily have to take the lowest quote (it's nice to pay a little more for a dealer closer to home) but it sure does drive the price down.

I've seen this approach backfire, because the dealer says he has the exact make/model as-quoted, but doesn't. Tries to pass it off as a simple misunderstanding, then says "But we have this other one over here which is close to what you asked for..."

IOW, only works if dealer is honest.

That's OK, there are dihonest people everywhere.

The only correct response to such a situation is: "I will tell everyone I know about your tactics, and go with the dealer that was shooting straight."

Then execute on exactly that plan.

A common workaround for this is to ask for a VIN.

Due to the earlier step, you should have more than one place to buy it from?

In other words, go to another dealer.

I've recommended this procedure to several (a dozen?) people and never encountered this. My steps mention a concise and exact list. If they flub this up, they're pretty damned incompetent.

Also, an interesting aside, there's a limited inventory in any given geographic region, so if you match your desire list up with a given VIN, they're usually quoting you on the same inventory item.

What cars were they getting though?

As others have said, this doesn't work for all cars. For less mainstream / luxur-ish cars, there won't be too many dealerships in 100 mi radius that carry what you want. At best you'd get a response that MSRP is this and that, please come in and we'll talk about discounts.

In my experience, this usually happens with high-demand cars that are hard for the dealer to get or brands with a limited area presence.

VW has 2 dealers in my region. Want a TDI Jetta with a manual transmission? Let the games begin -- they get 3 a month and the sales manager won't let it out the door for a good price.

Toyota used to have supply constraints for certain Camry models (some trims were made in Japan exclusively a few years ago). Want one of those? Good luck -- my dad had the guy demand a deposit to be on a waiting list, or take a lousy deal on one of the other trims.

Another thing that happens is that dealers need to trade with other dealers for specific cars. Sometimes these deals fall through, and the dealer who promised you a car is actually being honest -- he doesn't have it for reasons out of his control.

Yep this tactic doesn't work well for anyone that wants manual transmission cars in the USA. Most places get so few of them its hard to get deals on those specific types of cars.

I would not have believed this if I hadn't helped a friend shop for a car recently. It was surreal to both of us that his only hard requirement was a manual transmission and, despite visiting every dealership we could find, few had them at all.

Interesting note: Be very careful about believing a dealer's website or phone description of a car as a "manual." We ran into multiple dealerships that misidentified paddle shift or "manumatic"/"tiptronic" cars as manuals.

He ended up with an RX-8, but that's an entirely different set of stories... :)

Same experience here with TDI VWs. Even "friends and family" don't get good deals....you're just lucky to ge the car you want.

> don't get good deals....you're just lucky to ge the car you want.

If the supply of a certain good is constrained, then obviously the value goes up. Simply being able to purchase one is a good price by definition.

Tell them via email you need the VIN

VINs can be decoded to exact colors/features for most makes/models.

IANAL, but aren't quotes binding? If the dealer gives you a quote for a specific vehicle, that's binding, isn't it?

IANAL either, but it's unlikely that a salesman responding to an email with a price would be binding. It's more likely an "invitation to treat"[1]. Even if it was, technically speaking, binding, it would have to be the deal of a lifetime to be worth taking the case to court.

[1]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invitation_to_treat

Easy enough nowadays to just get a picture of the window sticker.

I have seen this method suggested in car dealer AMA threads. None of the sales guy (dealers) said this is a good idea and the effectiveness seemed largely dependent upon location.

> None of the sales guy (dealers) said this is a good idea

I think that's their idea of a hint.

I think that anything a dealer says about buying cars to non-dealers should be looked at with a fair amount of scepticism.

While looking for a flat in Amsterdam one of the agents I got was working for a salary, not commission. She was one exception who told me to talk to as many agents as possible, and not take whatever they tell me to. And yes, the "talk to only one, maximum two agents" was called an old boring story, because sure, they do talk to each other, but they will not treat you worse for it. She helped me in my looking immensely, and while she didn't make the sale, she's also the first one recommended by my company for new imported employees (which we get a lot of), so somehow I doubt her company lost a lot that way.

In fact, I praised her more than the agent I got my flat through, and it's her who gets my recommendation whenever someone asks me.

My organizational behavior professor used this process when he last bought his car.

In the UK, there are on-line services that serve a similar role but with the haggling done in advance. I bought my last car via www.drivethedeal.com, and wound up saving about 1/6 of the best quote I was getting from the local dealerships, which itself wasn't offensive. As far as I can tell, they did it by singling out one dealership in the entire UK that was willing to sell for very narrow, if any, margins, but then generated enough volume for that one dealership that presumably they qualified for perks from the manufacturers or similar.

I offered the local dealers the chance to match the price, but after hearing the figure I'd been quoted, they politely declined. They claimed that they would actually lose money on the sale if they did, and while I'm not an expert on the UK new car market, I suspect given the size of the discount that the local guys were being honest there.

Caution: That was mid-2000s, so any recommendation for that particular deal site is stale. Still, I have no reason to believe they have changed and apparently they're still going.

I used this process to buy my last car. The difference between the lowest two bids was several thousand dollars, and both were far less than I got from casual browsing in dealerships. I had a drive 30 miles to get the car I wanted, and the experience was the best I've ever had, though it will likely be my last. I don't think I'll ever buy a new car again. There are too many deals to be had for slightly used cars.

How do you handle your trade-in (assuming you have one)?

Do you sell it yourself?

A general rule of thumb is that if you have the time/energy, you should always sell yourself and never ever trade in.

Why? Because in the used car supply chain, the trade-in is the start of the chain - the lowest possible price, and the worse possible deal.

The supply chain (in its longest form) looks like this: Used car retailer sells a car (end of chain). He buys the car from a wholesaler. Wholesaler buys a car from an auction. Auction gets its supplies from dealerships. And what cars are dealerships putting in the auctions? Trade-ins.

Now, that chain can be broken at any time -- that's just the longest version. But dealers calculate trade-in prices with the assumption of a worst-case scenario (that they won't be able to sell on the lot and that they'll have to dump it to an auction).

So moral of the story - if you have the time and know-how to sell direct, do it!

Any tips/insight into selling direct?

If I don't have the know-how, is it worth my time to learn? Does the true difference in selling direct vs. trading in closely resemble the Kelley Blue Book difference between trade-in and private seller amounts of money?

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