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Comment by tukHelix | Hacker News Reader

It’s the first time I know fireworks has a team doing model research. I do have a complex mood in that. On one hand, I’m always happy to see improvement of OSS models, whether that’s on intelligence or cost-efficiency. On the other hand, I would be a little worried about using fireworks as my API provider. Till the moment I saw this news, I had been using fireworks as my provider of deepseek v4 flash, because I thought fireworks acting as a role deploying OSS models and selling calculation resources, should be safe to use without worry of data being used for training since there’s no “conflict of interests”. But I would think twice now.

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Just read the terms of service and read this blog post and I think your concern will be addressed.

https://trust.fireworks.ai/

this is our preferred open weight token vendor

this work may explain why recent models like qwen-3.8-flash and MiMo-2.6-* have not made it into their offering, which has given me reason to pause my excitement for Fireworks

Seems irrelevant? Of course we don’t use data for training.

…trust me bro.

It’s obviously easier to believe when they’re not training models.

Eh, anyway this whole thing is just an ad:

> Looking to take Ember-1 one step further, and optimize it for your use case? We are also launching training support for Ember-1, enabling enterprises to build customized, token-efficient models tailored to their needs with their own data. The future of open models is specialized models trained on your specific workload.

Probably, I guess, fancy serverless infrastructure actually makes virtually no difference to hosting really large models that people want to use, and “just” being an inference provider for open weight models turns out to have no moat.

So this is a bit of a pivot to “use our training infrastructure too…!” imo.

Pivot? Sure. Go them. Not what I signed up for though. /shrug

I think legal jurisdiction matters in discerning these things. The EU or US both have courts that, despite anyones opinion, are regarded as having robust contract enforcement. If Fireworks is domiciled in either then claiming ZDR and instead training on the data would be an enormous financial footgun. There's reasons why companies on both sides of contracts, even those with little to no US or EU activity, agree to use US or EU courts for enforcement.

Hong Kong I think used to be a popular option as well, before the handover from the UK.

Being terminally 'online' can make people cynical about everything, but have to temper things with reality a bit too.

Another factor in the cynicism is that robust enforcement is very 'pay to play'. I think your point is accurate for a company like Fireworks, largely doing business with peers that could afford litigation if necessary.

Good luck to an individual or small business trying to hold OpenAI or Meta to account if they breach contract over training, or do something crazy like copyright infringement on an industrial scale.

Last I checked they still offer no training ZDR US based hosting. It is one of my three pinned providers for deepseek v4 flash along with Parasail and Deepinfra.

That also could explain why openrouter is worth that much

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