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Comment by famahar | Hacker News Reader

It's really unfortunate that they have approved these changes. I know at least 7 people that have decided to leave Japan because of it. They were making enough money to support themselves, but under the rule they basically gave no chance of ever reaching that new income requirement. Some jobs just don't have that much upward financial mobility. Which is fine if you live outside the city without a large family, but these rules are harsh to anyone that isn't working a high pay job. Permanent recidency would have allowed them to work outside their visa category, easily start a business, and utilize their Japanese language skills in a larger market.

Its quite a shock since historically the government has moved extremely slow when implementing policies that have a large impact. But the last 6 months have been extremely anxiety inducing with a new immigration change being announced and approved every month.

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>I know at least 7 people that have decided to leave Japan because of it.

Wouldn't that make the Japanese locals happy as that means (in theory) 7 new job vacancies and 7 more free homes on the market for them?

Even if that's not exactly how this works in practice, if that's how voters see it, then they will support it.

A politician can spin it that way sure, despite foreigners owning 0.12 percent of property and most foreigner jobs (at least the ones my friends have) requiring fluent English. It's not a threat to Japanese people, but with the right populist figure, anything can sound like a threat. What I find so sad about this is the lack of empathy for people that worked hard to build a life here, paid their taxes, and followed the law. They did nothing wrong, but are the targets of a population primed to take their economic woes and anger out on people simply living their life peacefully.

>They did nothing wrong, but are the targets of a population primed to take their economic woes and anger out on people simply living their life peacefully.

If you check out history books, you'll be surprised(or not) by how often that happens.

>What I find so sad about this is the lack of empathy for people that worked hard to build a life here, paid their taxes, and followed the law.

Economic hardships and scarcity will turn everyone into animals. Every society, even the most kind, peaceful and orderly is only 3 missing meals away from killing each other for the last piece of bread. Except before killing each other, they'll first kill foreigners. Story as old as time.

No it will not, propaganda and scapegoating will.

This is thrown around as some sort of truism that humans become animals at the smallest inconvenience; but there is simply no evidence for it. On the contrary, there is loads of evidence that humans work together and support each other especially well through hardship.

Shitty situation I'm sure but no matter how you spin it or complain its shouting into the void. Whether there was real plus or minus ultimately as you pointed out make up a very microscopic fraction of Japanese economy and priority from the Japanese point of view, who's voice almost always override those of foreigners.

It would be nice for everybody to be happy but its clear Japanese who are the rightful owners of the land are not, and thus they have a right to vote and through consensus decide on what they perceive to be best for their national interests.

Maybe it's good for them maybe it's not but it won't be heard like all the comments here including mine or visible to real Japanese people living in Japan.

The callous extreme rudeness of purging hard-working people out just because their work doesn't pay a higher wage than the average is senseless anti-human pretentious bullshit.

Maybe that's how the AI apocalypse happens: AI generated memes and AI enhanced preferences for `clean` robot workers and purified isolation until the last human is informed she has to leave because some law requires it.

    > most foreigner jobs (at least the ones my friends have) requiring fluent English

Most foreigners that work in Japan are working low(er) skill jobs, like a supermarket, convenience store, restaurant, cleaning, factory, construction, elderly care, or farm. Literally, there are millions of them on the technical intern programme. None of those jobs require fluent English, intead they require basic Japanese.

You're right. I was primarily thinking of the Engineer/Specialist in Humanities/International Services Visa category. It's another common visa category.

(in theory) 7 new job vacancies and 7 more free homes

No. Japan already has low unemployment and high overtime demands due to worker shortages, and property is already cheap (even in most cities other than Tokyo) due to a combination of falling population, complex construction/demolition codes, changing lifestyles, and a different view of asset classes/investment practices from the US.

It's kinda like how nobody likes inflation (other than certain kinds of debtors) but a deflationary economy isn't a good solution to that problem. This will have a similar effect because the people leaving are likely to be the most culturally assimilated/affiliated with decent language skills etc., but their departure won't alleviate the demand for additional labor in industry and agriculture so there will probably still be a net increase in short-term and illegal foreign residency.

Japan does not have a shortage of homes - they have a surplus. Their economy very much need younger workers as their birth rates have fallen. But instead of simply allowing new workers in, they're choosing to devalue the shit out of their currency, then complaining about the huge influx of tourism that it triggered.

A surplus means nothing if they are in the wrong location.

yeah a misguided fixed pie scarcity mindset

The world's resources that people depend on for a livable life (food, clean water, land & housing, arable land, fertilizer, doctors, unpolluted air, fuel, energy, etc) ARE a fixed pie at any given time, you numbnuts. You can't make more of those at will the way you duplicate SW or print fiat.

> ARE a fixed pie at any given time, you numbnuts

I feel sneaking in "at any given time" makes the fixed vs growable pie distinction pretty much meaningless; even printing fiat takes some time. At a certain time there's a certain number of doctors (and everything else), but the number of doctors in a country can obviously increase over time, including by immigration.

No it won't. Because Japanese folks did not want that job before and will not want them later.

You need to be dull to not see that get trained adults that you never spent a cent in education to generate revenue and taxes and have no access to benefits is not a great deal.

Well, it is easy to be blind when you let a racist speech take your eyes.

Economies don't always work that way - just as win/win situations really exist so do lose/lose situations.

    > I know at least 7 people that have decided to leave Japan because of it.

Where did they go instead? Can they become permanent resident more easily in their new location (if not home country)?

    > They were making enough money to support themselves, but under the rule they basically gave no chance of ever reaching that new income requirement.

What was their job and income? I assume they were doing something like teaching English or a non-permanent university professor. Those roles will probably never pay enough to become permanent resident without marrying a local. If they were teaching English, their best chance to make the income requirement is to start a small English language school. You can really grid it out to meet the income requirements.

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