Comment by throw0101a | Hacker News Reader

Comment by throw0101a | Hacker News Reader

Parent Full thread

> One very common pattern I saw is that the conclusion is always that the dad is useless. Any provided facts are downplayed. Any omitted facts are imagined in the most negative light possible. And to be fair, there really are LOTS of cases where the dad is useless. The issue is more that posts needed to contain a mountain of evidence to return a neutral ground where the dad is no longer seen as a piece of garbage, rather than starting from neutral ground.

You can find quite a lot of data showing that the burden of managing domestic matters falls primarily on women. I would recommend people check out the book Fair Play which examines the problem and puts forward a system where people are assigned various personal tasks that need to be done (there are 100 in total, not all of which may apply to your life/household):

> The result is Fair Play: a time- and anxiety-saving system that offers couples a completely new way to divvy up domestic responsibilities. Rodsky interviewed more than five hundred men and women from all walks of life to figure out what the invisible work in a family actually entails and how to get it all done efficiently. With four easy-to-follow rules, 100 household tasks, and a figurative card game you play with your partner, Fair Play helps you prioritize what's important to your family and who should take the lead on every chore from laundry to homework to dinner.

* https://www.goodreads.com/en/book/show/44071899-fair-play

* Interview: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u6FfxfRMQkw

I really enjoyed Fair Play. While we didn't really prescribe to playing the game rigorously or really start keeping track of cards, it was a great read for our relationship and really made both of us look at how we lived our lives and acted in our relationship. We immediately made some small but lasting pivots that removed unneeded friction and now have new-found respect for each others daily "grind".

I've recommended it to a few friends and they have had similar stories. Nothing life changing, but some small, nice changes to the dynamic and how they think about it.

> I really enjoyed Fair Play. While we didn't really prescribe to playing the game rigorously or really start keeping track of cards, it was a great read for our relationship and really made both of us look at how we lived our lives and acted in our relationship.

This is probably the best (and maybe the only) way that this is a good game. As soon as it turns into score keeping, the relationship will almost certainly go sideways.

Maybe some relationships should go sideways, but that can be addressed in a different way.

> As soon as it turns into score keeping, the relationship will almost certainly go sideways.

The system / cards is not about keeping score: each card is a task, and whomever holds the card is responsible for it from start to finish. E.g., three of the cards are "Meals (Weekday Breakfast)", "Meals (Kids; School Lunch)", and "Meals (Weekday Dinner)"; this may fall to one person, but there is also the "Groceries" card:

> Your family needs to eat. Can we all agree on that? Good. So how do the pantry and refrigerator get stocked on an ongoing basis? With CPE. This includes noticing what’s about to be used up or expire, keeping a running grocery list, and getting to the market . . . ideally before you realize there’s not a drop of milk in the fridge. Even if your family orders groceries online and your go-to dinner is frozen pizza, this card requires CPE nearly 365 days a year. Consult the various “Meals” cardholders regularly so you can be sure you have taco shells in the cupboard for taco night.

* https://fairplaypolicy.org/the-cards

So the Meals person(s) have to plan the meal(s), and make an ingredient list for those specifically, and add to to a grocery list, but grocery buyer needs to take stock of what is already present in the fridge/freezer/pantry and buy anything missing generally, and specifically for the meals planned.

Eh, my marriage fell into this but it was because my ex refused to get a job, didn't think men were equally capable of parenting, and frankly invented a lot of work. It doesn't help that doctors, teachers, nurses, other parents, schools, and so talked to her by default. To be a truly equal parent or a primary parent as a father is swimming against the current.

> Eh, my marriage fell into this but it was because my ex refused to get a job, didn't think men were equally capable of parenting, and frankly invented a lot of work.

The book discusses expectations and 'standards of performance' and what is reasonable.

Reply on news.ycombinator.com