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Comment by quietmonkey | Hacker News Reader

There is not an unlimited supply of unpatriotic people, no.

Patriotic thinking is brainwashing we got very deeply by our society and the source of a lot of violence and problems.

Patriotism, like religion, is used to draw artificial separation between "us" and "them" and initiate violence against "them".

That is traditionally thought of as the line between Patriotism and Nationalism. One often used example is that a patriot wants what is good for the country, while a nationalist wants what makes the country look good. Patriots will do things that make their country look bad if it improves the country or helps the people within it, nationalists will avoid doing that and rather wave the flag and try to hide the problem.

However I wouldn't call anything on the American political right patriotic and even their Nationalism appears hollow, as many of their political measures actively hurt the standing and appearance of the Nation. If anything they are just marks of a political grift.

Interesting, Canada is very nationalistic then. Makes sense though with a large portion of its elderly consuming government funded news.

Patriotism is the attachment one feels toward one’s homeland.

Personally, the place where I grew up: the geography, people, and culture are permanently etched into my identity. So, yes in a sense it is brainwashing - but driven by biology.

Unfortunately, the rulers always want to deconstruct individuals and groups into fungible mechanical parts that can be used by the machine that continues their reign and authority.

Yes, I can separate myself from my past, but it sure doesn’t feel good. Why do we continue to sacrifice the life satisfaction of the small and weak to only give greater satisfaction to the powerful? Have so many become a product of this corrupted system, that their homelands no longer matter to them?

It is very well studied that the entire concept of “nation”, “homeland” and thus patriotism in the modern way began to develop only at the late 19th century with the adoption of mass media and railways.

Hundreds of thousand of years before this people were loyal to their family (not always) and their community (village, city, craftsmanship, etc.).

If you ever travel to 18th century and ask any ordinary European are they proud to be, say, French or British, they will not get you.

I think we're using different definitions of patriotism. I looked it up, and it said "homeland" not "nation". Homeland generally means region. I think what the parent meant was nationalism.

Either way, I don't care about the 'nation' all that much (although constitutional free speech rights are very important - arguably a major factor of what's holding the world together at this point). But, I definitely care about where I grew up, the region, the homeland.

Agreed. Not unlimited, effectively unlimited.

This is wildly off-topic but what does patriotism even mean anymore? What would you say was the last time someone in a position of power sacrificed themselves for the good of the country? vs. sacrificing the country for the good of themselves, which I can assure you was within the last 48 hours?

Edward Snowden? Chelsea Manning? Reality Winner? I'm sure there have been others but these heroes come to mind quickly when considering people who've sacrificed themselves for the good of the country.

Excellent examples, but it unfortunately proves the point: 2018 was the last time you can say someone even somewhat arguably sacrificed themselves for the good of the country. 8 years later we "patriots" pay 7% for mortgages and $7 for diesel as Don Jr. and Hunter enrich themselves on crypto scams and sicko laptop media tours.

relevant: https://libroot.org/posts/what-happened-to-the-snowden-archi...

A fascinating read, and very timely, thank you for sharing. If ever there was an argument against “too many people would have to keep quiet” this is it. Sickening.

What?! Apparently only about 1% of the estimated hundreds of thousands of documents were ever published.

Not that i disagree, but at the time these people were called traitors to their nation by people who claim to be patriots. I guess it all depends whose interests your patriotism defends, which is why patriotism as a concept/value is not really useful.

The patriots who want leakers in prison think it means securing the existence and power of their country no matter what, even if their own citizens suffer. The other side wants to protect their people from any harm, including the government and police if they act wrong.

Some people care about America and others about Americans.

And Hitler said he was just defending his country from the evil invaders. Bad people always have excuses and if they're good at being bad, they have excuses that work well.

Here's some patriotism for you:

https://www.mediamatters.org/donald-trump/story-trump-insult...

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